Getting the message across

[Minerva1234]

I've been pondering why the 'transwomen are women' message has proved so persuasive for many people.

I think people tend to respond best to messages of hope and change. 'Votes for women'. 'Legalise gay marriage'. Slogans about positive improvement are more compelling than 'oppose change' or 'keep things how they are'.

Equally, people respond to snappy, emotive slogans a lot more than they respond to paragraphs of well-reasoned argument.

The arguments made by gender critical feminists may be sound, but understanding them can take time and thought. The message is also one of resisting change - albeit with good reason - rather than being 'progressive'.

So is there a way of explaining the gender critical argument that taps into people's desire for positive change?

Maybe it's because we actually think trans women are women.

I love a good brainstorming session. This is going to be a many pronged approach I think. Humorous images and comparisons to illustrate the absurdity of self-ID.

If I self-ID as sober can I still drive home from the pub?

Glitched, literally, and from the day they are born?

OK then.

What is your definition of "woman"?

Well I suppose when they are born they are baby girls, then girls, then women.

Can I have your definition of

Baby girl
Woman

?

Fake edit to add: I'm not at the pub or drunk, that was for illustrative purposes.

I feel very uncomfortable with the point and stare approach to trying to get people to understand some of the issues around this.

And it can always be rebuffed by saying they are outliers / not really trans etc

That's just my POV.

Having said that, seeing pictures of delicate TW next to other people is often quite informative.

SilentSilverLights
Woman is not a costume
Love this

Maybe it's because we actually think trans women are women.

Why? Just because they say they are? How would they know?

I find it impossible for those who chant trans women are women to provide a definition
Without definition words are meaningless

Also loving Woman is not a costume. (or a feeling, or a state of mind)
All kinds of interesting possibilities though with the idea of slipping in and out of the 'woman' costume

I've been thinking a lot about this and I think a big part of the problem is that feminists are often responding, defensively, to the manipulative framing that TRAs have constructed around this debate, whereby it's supposedly on us to prove that we aren't 'bigots', when they are the ones making obviously false and absurd claims.

Therefore I think we are strongest when, instead of getting defensive (which allows the TRA lies to go unchallenged), we go on the offensive, always with a focus on the ideology itself rather than the people caught up in it:

'Trans ideology is incoherent, anti-female, anti-gay, anti-child, anti-science and anti-reality'

I adapted this quote from an excellent article by the journalist Charlie Rae, and I love the succinct boldness with which it calls out the whole gender identity nonsense for what it is: an extremely regressive movement posing as progressiveness.

It is is negative rather than positive, obviously, but I think it is very strong and will resonate with a lot of people who feel something is 'off' with gender identity doctrine but can't put their finger on why. It gives them permission to start analysing and critiquing it. If anyone asks you to explain why you made this bold statement, you can then get down into the detail of how and why trans doctrine is so harmful (eliminating women's sex-based rights and protections, sterilising children, 'the cotton ceiling', denying that bio sex exists, etc).

I find it impossible for those who chant trans women are women to provide a definition.
Without definition words are meaningless

Exactly, and this why the best way to instantly win a debate with a TRA is to ask them to define 'woman'. Next time someone comes at you with the mindless mantra 'Trans women are women', ask them, 'What is a woman?'. Then watch them twist and turn and finally stomp off in a huff. They can't answer, because if you do away with biology when defining 'woman', all you are left with are sex-role stereotypes, or a definition so circular it is ontologically meaningless.

We Have To
SEE SEX
to
SEE SEXISM

#SEXnotGENDER
#SEEtheSEXISM
#SeeItToFIXit

Excellent, Barracker. Keeping the focus on the material reality of sex is crucial to this debate.

Which reminds me that a huge problem is the word 'gender' itself, which was originally used by feminists to refer to cultural sex roles, but is now used interchangeably by TRAs to mean both sex roles and biological sex. This allows them to posit the ontological elimination of sex as progressive and revolutionary, when in fact it is the elimination of sex roles that is revolutionary, while sex remains an unchangeable fact of human existence. Imagine how most trans rhetoric would sound if they didn't have the weasel word gender, but were forced to use the older term 'sex roles' instead:

'Cis simply means that you identify with the sex roles you were assigned at birth'

'Gender identity describes the sex roles you identify with'

So for a start, I'd say we should avoid 'gender' and use sex and sex roles (or sex-role stereotypes) instead. It makes things so much clearer.

I'm also tempted to #CountThePenis to #SEEtheSEXISM
when people crow about us being represented by more men (who identify blahblahblah...)

Not as positive, but hey :-)

I like
Only men can be transwomen
And
Only women can be transmen.

It's true, it's positive (almost supportive) yet makes an important point.

Love woman is not a costume.

I like "women are not trans women so how can trans women be women?"

And simply "how?"

Which is essentially "define a woman?"

Love that sci fi.

Like those barrack too. Book marking thread...!

I love so much of what you are all saying.

Also loving Woman is not a costume. (or a feeling, or a state of mind)
All kinds of interesting possibilities though with the idea of slipping in and out of the 'woman' costume

I like, 'A woman is an adult human female, not a feeling in a man's head.'

It's a positive statement - for women. And especially needed amidst all the incredibly cruel 'a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman' propaganda. I think it will make a lot of women feel grounded and good, to have our embodied reality named as something that is a) not a choice, and b) not available for appropriation.

I like SciFi's Only men can be transwomen

I like the tone of scifi's

How about

Only men can be transwomen.
Only women can be transmen.
Don't erase trans reality