Patrick Harvies response to the MNer who published his dismissive response on here.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Sorry - I can't remember who the MNer was . She wrote to him about the proposed changes to the GRA, and he said that as long as the government listened to trans people and trans allies (I'm paraphrasing badly) it would all be lovely.

Patrick seems to have got the hump that this was published, and written this response

greens.scot/blog/trans-rights-are-human-rights-and-we-must-stand-together-to-achieve-them

As a (now ex) green party Scotland member I am seriously pissed off. I have cancelled my membership renewals, and written to the party to explain why.

How long until the Green party has male, and TIM co-conveners, as opposed to male and female.

Raaaaaaagh

redonion
That's exactly the point about the unheard majority - the majority daren't speak out for fear of financial punishment.

Urgh, what an absolute tool. I left the Green Party over their stupid 'non-man' rubbish (and also because I campaigned for them at local council level, and they were so disorganised and ineffectual that I actually felt embarrassed.)

Lefty males really are a problem. But we all know men are believed over women - look at the Weinstein v Spacey reporting, it took hundreds of women to bring Weinstein down and just one bloke to do Spacey. This is another manifestation of this: transwomen (men) are believed and prioritised by other men over women.

I would love to know wtf he thinks it is women are arguing here. What on earth is it with lefty men who think they don't need to bother listening to women? "I'm vaguely aware that there's a debate going on about this, I've decided I disapprove of the hateful things you're saying. No no no, I can't be bothered listening to what you're ACTUALLY saying, I'm far too busy wagging my finger at you for that."

I was at the Glasgow GRA talk and to call it a 'campaign against trans rights' is absolutely ridiculous. Patrick Harvie was not there. But I'm sure he knows much better than me - after all I'm just a woman, what would I know about women's rights?

Wast it the green party that once referred to women as 'non men' in a tweet, then defended it by saying it was 'for clarity'?

The "non-men" thing came from a Green Party national conference at Brighton a couple of years ago, iirc. They'd noticed that most of the speaking time was taken up by men both on the platform and from the floor. No, really, I've never noticed that before? But (pace Laura Hudson) I'm old so maybe my memory is feeble and I should just shut up and step aside.

But I digress (well, I'm ancient you see).

So anyway, the Green Part then announced a session where only women could speak, although I gather men could be in the room. And then of course, the inevitable: this discriminates against men who id as women - including the charmer I heard on radio (definitely a man's voice) saying "I identify as a woman, but I present as a man" Way to go Daddyo - Best of both worlds - higher pay, no discrimination because maternity, child care , gynae issues, but "Oh my gosh, aren't you just sooooo oppressed, darling, you being a woman and all?" All those nasty ciswomen, flaunting their cisprivilege by talking about menstruation and childbirth. Oh how nasty, oh how transphobic.

So, the Green Party, dear sweet naive people that they are said, "OK, this is a session where only non-men many speak." Instead of saying: this is a session where men should just Shut Up.

That's it, folks - women are defined again by our lack, by our NOT being men. Fuck that.

I've just looked on Twitter and he hasn't provided any meaningful definition of what a woman is, even when asked outright if it's an adult human female with XX chromosomes, or a man in a dress. He's just blahing on. Also I am sick of seeing this argument:

TIM: Trans rights and women's rights are not in conflict.
Woman: Yes they are. Here's why - shortlists, prisons, everything designed to level the playing field for women.
TIM: No they're not. I say they're not and I'm a woman, therefore trans rights and women's rights are not in conflict.

ARRRRRGHHHHHH!

Tsk 53rdWay he watched a video and spoke to a TRA! He knows everything now

I’m tempted to start a thread to see which is the biggest Lefty Man Knobber but I suspect it isn’t quite in the spirit of calm, rational debate and not the look we’re aiming for on FWR but GOD I’m tempted for the laugh

Badger my shortlist would be -

Patrick Harvie
Owen Jones
Ralf Little

Patrick has always been a misogynist. It would be great if Green Party members could start a similar GoFundMe to the Labour Party one.

It's Friday so fuck calm and rational.
Here's my starters for 10...

Paris Lees
Little Owen Jones
Ally Fogg
Patrick Strudwick

And new arrivals on the "Lefty Man Knobber" boat

Ralph Little
Patrick Harvie

Michael Page asked Patrick to define 'woman'
''I have a definition of "woman" which is based on sex. It is the sex which has two x chromosomes throughout the body and which produces ova. Please share with me your definition of the word "woman".''

Patrick says that erases MTT's;
''That's not an argument against the current proposal for change; it's an argument against trans people's basic existence, and against any form of legal gender recognition process at all.''

twitter.com/patrickharvie/status/954406002618699776

I’m tempted to start a thread to see which is the biggest Lefty Man Knobber but I suspect it isn’t quite in the spirit of calm, rational debate

no no, you're probably right. it's totally Owen Jones

Speaking of calm, rational debate, notice how the men like Patrick who think we're transphobic bigots don't even try that? You would think that they might say to themselves, "hmmm, I know TERFS are bad and all, but lots of these 'TERFs' speaking to me are lefty women, lots are feminists, lots have fought for LGB and indeed T rights before now, there's a lot of lesbians and bi women among them. They're probably just mistaken rather than evil? I'll try to explain to them calmly and reasonably why I think they're wrong, and speak and listen to them like equals.' Nope, never ever happens.

OTOH whenever you see men mention something vaguely gender-critical on Twitter, they're falling over themselves to decently and patiently explain their views.

So - either we go with XX, which (allegedly) erases TIMs.

Or we go with "identifies as a woman" which erases me and 99% of the female sex, because we don't "identify" as women, we just are women.

I'm going with XX chromosomes.

it's an argument against trans people's basic existence

I don't believe that the Garden of Eden was in North America. I am not arguing against the basic existence of Mormons.

I don't believe that taxation is theft. I am not arguing against the basic existence of libertarians.

People can disagree with you, you won't vanish in a puff of smoke.

that erases MTTs
It's an argument against trans people's basic existence

No. No, it's really not. We know they exist. They are constantly in the limelight, there is no missing the fact that they exist. We just disagree that TIMs are women. If anything, it is an argument against trans people's basic ideology, but not their existence.

Trans oppression is different to women’s oppression.

Or something. Equal, but not the same.

This exchange properly made me rofl. Absolutely no self awareness whatsoever.

And transwomen with a GRC are legally "women." But they've had that 2 year process, they've had to think carefully and consult with experts.

However, this is apparently humiliating.

I imagine a woman seeking a termination of a pregnancy she doesn't wish to continue with might find it humiliating (and a whole lot more) to try to get to see 2 GPs and go through counselling, plus walking through praying evangelicals etc etc etc.

I imagine a woman giving birth who doesn't conform with the current medico-legal processes around pregnancy, labour, and child-rearing might find herself in an intense difficult and scary entanglement with medico-legal institutions of the State (viz. the number of posts on MN about women scared that the DSS will discipline or punish them, take away their children, etc etc).

Because oh no, no woman has ever experienced state-sanctioned medico-legal intervention in her bodily autonomy. Particularly not women in Ireland, or the US, or many many other places we could list. Oh no never, I've never heard of women being disciplined by the State for the capacities of their female bodies.

I maybe being sarcastic here

Or in NI not being allowed a TOP at all and being forced to give birth. Or find £££ to get over to mainland UK.

Of course TAs don't give a fuck about stuff like that.

The lack of insight into women's actual lives and lack of interest is quite incredible given that this is the class of people they claim to be a part of, and not just any part, but the part all campaigners for that entire group should listen to.

Don't they realise they sound like men, misogynist men at that.

That's the bit that gets me.

The leaping straight to threats of violence esp sexual violence is just an eensy bit of a giveaway too...

When they introduce the GRA legislation in Scotland (which they will cos all political parties support it, all women’s orgs, lgbt orgs support it) I will declare myself a bloke, apply for a civil partnership with my male partner and invite Patrick Harvie to the event. Do you think he’ll believe me, a 52 year old woman, is now a gay man? Will he hell. But so much of Scotland is signed up to this, and they all tend to know each other and are very self congratulatory about how progressive they all are.

Well, that’s one way of getting civil partnerships for straight couples.

Indeed. That's the only potential benefit I can actually see

A straight guy in Ireland married his mate to dodge the inheritance tax.

www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/two-best-friends-getting-married-to-avoid-tax-have-tied-the-knot-819989.html

All sorts of people will circumnavigate these new laws for all sorts of reasons. 60 million or whatever in the UK, there are plenty of unhinged folk about.

There is no way the GRA will remain fully intact for long. It's got litigation writ all over it.

He hates women. He can't even bring himself to centre one single God damn tweet about women. He twists it so it's positive about men (of whatever persuasion), or about women in the negative.

Fuck him.