India Willoughby says genderfluid people "cheapen" transgender struggle

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/01/04/celebrity-big-brother-2018-india-willoughby-says-genderfluid-people-cheapen-transgender-struggle/

I suspect they might be peak transed when they read their Twitter when they get back out! I hope that this, and they, highlight some of the issues with the current trans craze.

Despite the discussion this programme is generating for people who may not have thought of these topics, I'm also starting to find it a shame that a programme "celebrating women" is being utterly hijacked by everything 'trans'. And no trans men? So just misogyny then.

I've watched a little bit

India's badgering of an unwell 82yr old who mistakenly misgendered him and immediately apologised is quite the object lesson in raging narcissism.

There was an interesting exchange between Rachel, Anne and Amanda (who had all accidentally misgendered India at some point, although Rachel not to his face) straight after one of India's outbursts where Rachel ask the question "why can't our brains get it right" (not verbatim) to which their conclusions were a) India keeps banging on about India's transition and so the fact that they "were" male is in the forefront of their mind (India is trying to frame it that everyone has been constantly asking questions about their transition which is the only reason India is talking about it, when in fact it is India who is bringing the subject up and the others are following with questions to be polite and follow the conversation thread). And b) Anne pointed out that India has had several years to come to terms with their new identity and that people need time to adjust their thoughts (again not verbatim).

None of them dared mentioned the elephant in the room which is India is male. India reads as male and the cognitive dissonance that it takes to keep swapping the correct term "he" for the incorrect term "she" takes conscious effort and it is inevitable that slips will happen when people are not concentrating fully on the most important thing in the world which is of course not giving India hurty feelings.

Wayne Sleep is spot on about the homophobia.

@guardianfree fair enough. I’m not watching it so can’t really comment on her behaviour. Generally I agree about womenhood being appropriated, but I want to tackle this in a way which is also sensitive to the struggles of genuine trans people. However if India is behaving in the way you describe I agree with you that this is unacceptable, and perhaps my sympathy is misplaced in her case.

BelligerentGardenPixies

Do you think they are trying to find reasons for not getting it right amongst themselves so they can outwardly find an excuse for the inward disbelief?

So, if they were allowed to say exactly what was on their mind, do you think they would all say well it's obviously because he's a man, not because we haven't had time or because we getting used to it.

I haven't watched CBB yet but it sounds as thought the "In Praise of Women" concept was a load of bullshit to begin with has gone down the pan. It sounds like the Trans thing is overshadowing it all.

Datun - Hard to say because I think some of them desperately want to think of India of female because they think that is the right and kind thing to do but that desire is in direct conflict with the subconscious brain that tells them the truth of reality.

I do think that Anne would come out with it if she felt supported. I think it's telling that she's keeping mum because she's not known for holding back or being afraid to voice the unpopular opinion - even she knows that when it comes to male ego's, you have to tread carefully.

It's interesting to see the divide between the younger and older women on this subject. The younger women are falling over themselves to validate India. The older women are trying their best to be kind and polite but you can feel that the brainwashing doesn't want to stick. Rachel made a very astute observation when India flounced out after refusing to take Amanda's apology. She said to Amanda, something along the lines of "you have to understand that a lot of that was performative..." - they can't help but see through the hystrionics even if they don't really want to.

I'm watching the first episode on catch-up. I've noticed so far that India is the only one in a tight skimpy dress. Showing off the shaven legs?

you have to understand that a lot of that was performative...

Interesting that she uses that word. Sounds a bit gender critical to me.

I'm fascinated how the men will deal with it. Either they will give it a wide birth because it's ishoos that they don't get. Or they will call a spade a spade.

Either way, the dynamics have the potential to set on wholly unpredictable lines.

Will men side with men? Or will they feel the need to defend women from a belligerent man who thinks he's a woman?

It sounds as though it's gone too far for an affinity to strike up between India and the rest of the women, though?

Wane Sleep was on the Wright show a few weeks ago stating quite vehemently his objection to trans children. He thinks it's homophobic

It's so refreshing to hear someone in the public eye calling out this whole shambles for what it is.

There used to be a time where people would say "if my son wants to play with dolls and dress up for fun that's fine" now it's "my son plays with dolls and likes playing dress up so that means he must really be a girl inside". We're going backwards and it's no thanks to TRA's.

Obviously this is Big Brother who of course are notorious for exploiting issues with the main focus being on the 'story' and not the welfare of the participants.
However, I was actually prepared to like India close up - I thought I might have some of my prejudices challenged and was interested to see how a transgender woman living side by side with women in this way would work. I am a bit surprised to see how quickly the levels of narcissism, gaslighting and bullying have emerged.
I do wonder whether any of the new arrivals will 'have a word' and warn India about how dreadfully they are coming over? Cue either a 'turn around' of behaviour or a 'flounce' out of the house with shouts of literal violence and transphobia maybe?

Datun - I can't tell if Rachel is full on gender critical or just an astute women who has been around her fair share of tantruming males with personality disorders (yes Boris, I'm looking at you) and so can spot it from a mile off, even if she wouldn't name it thusly.

I would be surprised if any of the straight men challenge India but I could see some spats between the drag queen lad and/or Wayne Sleep and India happening. India has been very vocal of her dislike of drag queens in particular. The drag lad seems very grounded and secure in himself and his self expression (ironically passes as female far more than India even though he makes no claim on femaleness) and I don't think he will take the gaslighting or bullying lying down. Wayne is not overly bright and has a massive ego (bitter old ballet queen was the phrase used by someone I know who knows him) and I doubt will pander but also probably hasn't thought through the ramifications of being perceived as transphobic.

Oh I hadn't realised Wayne Sleep had gone in too. Excellent!

I could see some spats between the drag queen lad and/or Wayne Sleep and India happening.

Plus Wayne might easily end up defending his friend Amanda.

India is a complete twat. Irrespective of gender.

I don't watch CBB. How is it a 'female house' when men are there?

Car crash tonight - I eagerly await India being called out for the most vile ageism - abusing Ann Widdecombe by saying she has a face like a bag of spanners, calling older women an 'OAP mafia'.

Funny how someone so keen on identifying transphobia dishes out hate speech aimed at others with no hesitation

Such an unpleasant person.....

I'm blocked by India on Twitter, despite never having tweeted her. She must use a "TERF blocker" or something to drown the opposing views out.

Point being, India can't handle any views which aren't her own. Quite unhealthy really, as CBB is showing.

I thought it was very interesting tonight. Because the men just laughed at the thought of sleeping with a trans woman. And kept pointing out the difference between them and actual women.

India stormed off in the end.

This is where us being kind ends. At male heterosexuality. This may well be the undoing of trans. Where they come up against men. Because no straight man is going to be intimidated into pretending that they are actual women.

Oh come on though, the massaging of her tits. FFS. The women were like, oh ffs ok then, show me

Bloody hilarious.

Rad fems, I think IW may well be doing our word for us.

Although I did manage to come across several trumpets on twitter

work

Referring to the op - sadly India is cheapening the transgender struggle. I had a brief foray onto the cbb fb and read comments.

I do feel saddened that some will think she represents all trans women. I'm thinking of the sanity of Miranda Yardley for example.

Yes. But that business with Genuwine is a wonderful opening for explaining to people about the cotton ceiling.

Datun - I can't tell if Rachel is full on gender critical or just an astute women who has been around her fair share of tantruming males with personality disorders (yes Boris, I'm looking at you) and so can spot it from a mile off, even if she wouldn't name it thusly.

Can you imagine growing up with Boris? Being from the kind of family that produces a Boris? She's going to be both very intelligent, and well able to hold her corner I think.

I did cave and watched a clip of them having to change a car wheel - and they all got the first step wrong - you undo the nuts before you jack up the car, so you can do it without the wheel turning.. This makes me think that none of them have had to do it in real life..

Ekphrasis
Are we seeing a good example of the narcissism prevalent in so many of those who transition? I have also had a look at the cbb pages etc and the criticism of India is almost universal. Not what I expected at all.