Suggestions for dd who declines a bra

[SarahCarer]

My dd is unlikely to ever wear a bra of any kind. I once tried to open a discussion with her about it to try to prepare her for what this might mean in the future but aborted it quite quickly because I didnt want to present an unnecessarily negative view of other people. She is embarrassed changing for PE and I've suggested a vest or crop top as an alternative but she won't consider it. She's early high school age and despite her bralessness being quite obvious already in school uniform, she hasn't had comments from boys or teachers that I'm aware of. I'd really like to hear experiences from other feminists and views on whether there is more I could be doing to prepare her for a bra defying future. P.s. So this isn't a drip feed, she has aspergers and is gender non conforming.

I dip in and out of bra wearing but I’m not big at all. The only issue is with nipples and the reaction they get so if I’m in a not wearing phase then I’ll wear a close fitting t shirt underneath what I’m wearing.

Good luck OP.

Why do you want her to wear a bra?

If she's embarrassed changing for PE, would she wear a t-shirt under her shirt? Pretty much every girl, most of the boys, DP, I, well, pretty much anyone wearing a shirt wears a t-shirt (or vest in summer) under it don't they?

I don’t wear a bra unless my top is actually see through and I’m ancient and large of Birk. Leave her be.

*nork.

I wonder if this is something that your dd will have to come to herself? I think that there is starting to me more options available in terms of gender neutral underwear (have a google, you may have done so already). Maybe mention it in more general conversation when its just the two of you, but in a way that reassures them that they don't have to do anything about this right away.

Good luck - it honestly sounds like you are doing the best job you can.

That's a tricky one.

Just wondering to get a better idea - is there a sensory aspect to it to take into account? Does she have preferences around fabrics and things being loose or tight? What is her discomfort around vests? Is she likely to be large enough that discomfort may happen for her with tissue stretching or movement during PE?

I have a friend who never wears bras but needs a bit of support (she's quite busty) - she wears a slim strap close fitting vest. Some of them have an inner shorter layer for extra support. She says it's really comfy!

If she's not fussed let her be. If it's a comfort issue I used to t-shirts under my school shirts - made them much less see through!

Does she need support yet? (for her breasts, not in general )
How about close-fitting t-shirts, they can provide coverage as well as light support, or again close-fitting vest tops with wide straps?
Some vest tops have 'secret support' in the form of an inner shelf with an elasticated borrtom part -- they can be very comfy. And you can get plain ones without lace detailing etc.

You can get stickers to go over nipples if necessary. There is an interesting article on Babe about a teenage girl refusing to wear a bra...will find link later, sorry.

DD has sensory issues (and other ASD traits) and is a bra-refuser.

As she has got bigger, she has now realised that she feels more comfortable wearing a sports bra / yoga bra than nothing at all.

She doesn't really care what anyone else thinks about her underwear.

If modesty when changing for PE is the issue, I'd suggest thin sleeveless base layers. DS2 wears these in the winter; they are gender-neutral.

How old is high school age?

She can just wear a vest / t-shirt underneath?

Will she be upset if / when she gets comments do you think or is she good at ignoring / being oblivious? Maybe she'll be lucky.

Oh just seen she won't wear a vest.

Without wearing anything under her shirt the changing thing is going to be tricky. Sorry my advice wasn't much use at all.

Would you be able to talk to her about some people sometimes being unkind to people they perceive as different? Then talk about the choice not to wear a bra/vest being fairly unusual, and might mean some people notice and are unkind. Emphasising of course that this is their problem, not hers. You could discuss different strategies she could use to deal with any comments so that she feels confident in her choice.

If she's embarrassed changing for PE could you ask if there's a more private area she could use, given her additional needs?

Can you find some pics of GNC girls / or boys with shirts with tshirts under and show them to her? That it's not just girls with breasts that wear things under their shirts?

When DD went through a "boys clothes only" phase I found looking at pics of GNC people from my childhood helped so bowie, annie lennox, adam ant looking so pretty etc etc and explained that things were a bit more relaxed in the past and men could wear makeup and women have v short hair and suits and that's all fine.

I think gender is so fixed these days it's such a shame.

I mean not just girly girls....

if it's literal ideas about gendered clothing that is the problem.

Would are the sensory issues around?

Material?
Seams?
Labels?
Tightness/looseness?

Would a sports bra type thing work? She could pick from.a variety of colours?

A tight ish sleeveless top?

If she doesn't like the feel of straps on her shoulders would a more halter style thing work?

Tankini/bikini top?

I would let her be, too. Wearing a bra or not does not signify anything about her gender, except that she is non-conforming. All credit to her. Obviously be aware of her getting teased or bullied. Maybe a skin coloured T shirt she can wear under a school shirt?

DD is the same, and also Aspergers.
I let her get on with it.
She also has very hairy armpits that she isn't interested in shaving. I'm just hoping the girls in PE don't tease her about it.

Thanks everyone so much. Lots for me to follow up on here. Yes there are sensory issues as well as gender nc. I don't want her to wear a bra. I'm worried how she will deal with others reactions to her not doing so if they happen. And my own actually. I have a secret fear that school might call me about it and that will make me cross and upset. Dd thinks t shirts aren't allowed under shirts. Strap vests too feminine. Proper vests too old person. Wierdly none of the boys wear vests either she says, although she can't really know that. Will definitely follow up on some of the suggestions here though thank you. I think I do need to prepare her for the unkind reactions of others. Focusing on people not liking difference in others might be a good way in.

I'd be surprised that it is the case vests aren't allowed.

If the school has a traditional shirt and blazer uniform I'm not sure anyone would particularly notice or care. A vest might show through a thin polycotton shirt when the blazer is off but so what?

If the uniform is a sweatshirt/ polo shirt then it would be impossible to tell what is underneath.

Aren’t t shirts under shirts pretty common in some cultures? I’d be really surprised if a plain one was banned.

Her choice. Her decision.

I don't force my son into vest. All girls have a choice of a blazer. That's standard.