Suggestions for dd who declines a bra

[SarahCarer]

My dd is unlikely to ever wear a bra of any kind. I once tried to open a discussion with her about it to try to prepare her for what this might mean in the future but aborted it quite quickly because I didnt want to present an unnecessarily negative view of other people. She is embarrassed changing for PE and I've suggested a vest or crop top as an alternative but she won't consider it. She's early high school age and despite her bralessness being quite obvious already in school uniform, she hasn't had comments from boys or teachers that I'm aware of. I'd really like to hear experiences from other feminists and views on whether there is more I could be doing to prepare her for a bra defying future. P.s. So this isn't a drip feed, she has aspergers and is gender non conforming.

Is there a sympathetic member of the SLT she likes that you could get to let her know that t shirt under her blouse is fine? If the only thing she's comfortable with is the usual sensation of her cotton blouse then another possible thing to try may be to buy additional blouses of the fabric she is comfortable with, cut them up and line the front pannels so they are double thickness?

I would think she is probably saying that vests/t-shirts are banned to deflect a bit from how they're feeling - and also, they are still a kid who wants to wear things they like, and it may be that neither idea appeals to them particularly.

This will work itself out, it just needs time and space. You're both doing fine.

What about boys thermal underwear? A thermal t-shirt is technically a vest but looks like a t-shirt. Could you tell her that you would argue the toss with the school if they mentioned it?

Wouldn't work in summer but might get her through the winter months.

Those elasticated bras from JML and the like are very comfy. I wear them at home and there are no seams or clasps that irritate.

That said, I'm inclined to say leave her to it. A few comments might be preferable to her than the constant sensory discomfort a bra might create.

If she's embarrassed changing for PE then is there something she will wear on those days, and not on the others? Has she suggested any alternatives for those days?

The other option is to talk to school and see if she can get changed separately as PP said.

I don't think there's much point thinking about the future, it would be good to get this PE thing resolved though, poor DD.

I would offer her to wear a boy's vest, cotton, plain and either fitted or not fitted only on days that she has PE. No talks of bras at all.

'Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow'.

If I understand you correctly, your DD has not actually encountered any problems or comments about her non-bra wearing, has she?

She knows her options. Her body, her choice.

My daughter wears bras 9/10 but now and again She wears her sport bra.

She had said her DD is embarrassed changing for PE, I think a few posters have missed that part.

Hmm, round here no boy over the age of about 4 wears a vest. I really doubt high school age boys are wearing them. White cotton T maybe, but usually nothing under shirt.

Would/could the school provide an individual (private) changing area for PE as a "reasonable adjustment" for her asd?

I also refused to wear a bra for several years at high school. Also ASD, with quite a lot of sensory issues about clothes etc. I started wearing one eventually, as my mum finally bought me something that fitted properly and wasn't horrendously ugly. I have a big thing about bras with seams. I can only have completely smooth ones. Perhaps, OP, your DD will come to it in time. Just mention that it's a good idea for exercise, as we've no muscle holding that up. Quite a few Aspie girls would like to stay childlike as it's easier. It's a bit of denial.

Thanks Upabitlate. Yes PE changing has been a concern for her. I think I'm going to try sourcing some soft boys vests and see what she thinks of them. I'm surprised and pleased the consensus has been to wait and see if she encounters ugly behaviour and not necessarily try to prepare her for it. To be honest I thought I might hear some horror stories from others. I do prefer to encourage high expectations of the behaviour of others including boys so maybe wait and see is the best approach.

It's a shame that behaviour / reactions of others make it pretty fraught / not really an option to go without as they are bloody uncomfortable imo. Hope you find something that DD is ok with for PE

My friend has a gender non conforming clothing brand and is an absolutely lovely person. If your daughter is on Instagram then she could do worse than follow www.instagram.com/refusetoconformclothing/?hl=en
Charlie is also great at giving positive advice to her followers.

Thanks MrsPnut. That's worth me joining Instagram for! Dd not quite up to social media yet.

My 16 year old daughter has always refused bras and sleeveless underclothing. She has a large bust but declares herself "fine, and ignores any comments. She is sporty and changes by some weird method that works for her....
I spent a lot of time concerned for her but having internal feminist arguments with myself.
In the end she chose, she is fine and it's not up to me...it's her body.
If your daughter decides she needs help she will either ask you/a friend or look online for options. Try not to project your own concerns on her. She will work thorugh it herself and do what she feels is right for her.

PS I have other daughters who prefer to wear a bra....also their choice...my hardest job was explaining to them that DD1 didn't have to conform to other people's expectations and they should be supportive of choices that were different to their own.

I'm certain school wouldn't consent to separate changing as they refused a request to let her use the disabled toilet. Interestingly they said that the onus was on them as a school to deal with the behaviour of the other pupils "aah a boy in the girls toilets!" rather than my dd having a separate facility to use. Becoming less of an issue now she's developing obviously.

Thank you OP for starting this thread, this has been very helpful. My DD aged 13 is another aspie bra-avoider although I have not yet raised it with her. It's totally a sensory thing, she hates clingy clothes. She has so far worn cropped vests and stretchy all-in ones, but I've noticed recently that she's stopped. I'll probably need to raise it with her from a 'comfort during PE' point of view but she's not exactly happy talking about personal things so I'm waiting for the right moment. Previously she was wearing vests because the uniform shirt has a 'scratchy' embroidered logo...

I used to always wear vests under my school shirts during sixth-form (over my bra) as we had to wear white shirts as our uniform and I always felt they were see-through and hated the idea of boys staring at my boobs/bra through my shirt and commenting on it as they sometimes used to do to some of my peers. You could see that I was wearing a vest underneath but it's not like teachers were going to comment on my under-clothing in any way so it was fine and I felt happier that way. Sometimes I used to wear my binder over the vest as well when I fancied it. I have Asperger's and I guess feel gender non-comforming though you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at me. Was more apparent when I was in my late teens I suppose.

T-shirts with a lower neckline are virtually invisible under school shirts. We all wore them due to see-through-ness being a problem.