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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

My 16 year old ds has just been dumped by first girlfriend....

47 replies

BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 12:17

He’s sad- but has just said “I realize I want a relationship where I can do sweet and romantic things - I could only ever tell Jess [not her real name] that her outfit was nice, not that she was pretty. And she would never let me give her a present”

Not sure what to say to him, to be honest.......gentleness to be encouraged or paternalistic crap to be discouraged?

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RavingRoo · 02/01/2018 12:20

Discourage this. Relationships are all unique and he needs to learn how to take his queues from his partner.

DuruttiColumnist · 02/01/2018 12:23

Bert it sounds a bit like she's just looking for something fun and friendly rather than serious and involved, which is why she might have eschewed any romantic gestures Grin I was like that at their age, I just wanted to get to know a range of people and find out what I wanted from a boyfriend, rather than be danced attendance upon.

FlaviaAlbia · 02/01/2018 12:25

It just sounds like they weren't very compatible or wanting the same from a relationship at this stage.

I remember teenage relationships where I just wanted to go out and have some fun at a weekend and the boy wanted to get more serious. Soppy stuff made me run a mile as I was afraid I'd find myself in over my head and find it hard to get back out again.

TunaSushi · 02/01/2018 12:28

He will find himself, then someone more compatible, he has his whole life ahead of him.

Nuffaluff · 02/01/2018 12:29

I don't think there's anything wrong with romance or compliments as long as it's a two way thing.
A man can tell me I look attractive if I can say the same to him. Then we're equals. Likewise present giving, paying for meals, etc.
He'll find someone who's more compatible. Your son sounds lovely.

Datun · 02/01/2018 12:40

It's a minefield. He should be able to buy her gifts and compliment her. It doesn't have to be paternalistic.

He wants to express his affection. It's incredibly difficult, given the world we live in and what the connotations can be.

I've had these conversations with my own sons. I've concluded with saying its fine to appreciate someone's attractiveness, as long as that is not the basis on which you place their value.

He does sound like a thoughtful young man and being dumped can be incredibly painful.

I'll be interested to hear other peoples comments, though.

LangCleg · 02/01/2018 12:51

Awww. Just tell him that's how it goes. You like someone. You get with them. Then you find out that you have completely different ideas about what you'd like to get from the relationship. And one of you ends it. But life goes on.

My youngest split up with his first girlfriend over Facebook passwords. He thought she should trust him and not demand access to his account to see his private messages. It was all high drama for weeks. I often wonder if she had more luck with subsequent boyfriends because it seemed like an unreasonable demand to me!

PricklyBall · 02/01/2018 12:59

I don't think it's paternalism - more that he was after a lovey-dovey relationship, and she wanted something more low-key. Having been in both these situations in my time, on the occasions when I was the low-key partner, I'd feel stifled and emotionally manipulated (even if that wasn't the intention) by the lovey-dovey partner; when it was the other way round I felt hurt and rejected. Sadly, them's the breaks with young love.

Don't go for the "you were being paternalistic" angle, I'd say, but the "it's great to be loved-up if it's mutual, but if it isn't, you may well simply be incompatible" - and like a PP said, stress that the thing is to take your cues from your partner.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 13:26

It's interesting, isn't it? His dad is very soppy-we're a pretty soppy family to be honest- and I never really thought that would be a problem for him-better than the reverse, I would have said. But it can be incredibly manipulative-"How can you not love me when I'm making all these romantic gestures....?"

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FlaviaAlbia · 02/01/2018 13:36

I don't know about manipulative but it could make an unwilling recipient feel pressured even if that intention isn't there.

I suppose it's all about his intentions and how he takes rejection of the gestures.

Popchyk · 02/01/2018 13:40

I do think early January is a prime time for teen dumping. Lots of teens want to be in a relationship for Christmas where there is lots of excitement and socialising and social media showcasing other people's perfect lives. I think a lot of teens feel the pressure to be coupled up at that time.

Come the cold light of January, it can be a different story.

guardianfree · 02/01/2018 13:45

It's such a minefield. While discussions about mutual respect and boundaries are useful, I often find that talking about 'power' in relationships can be helpful.
How do you get the balance of power right? How do you maintain an 'equal ' balance - loving the qualities that drew you to the person while not losing yourself. Being a giver vs being a taker?
Just the fact that he's talking and thinking is positive.

IrkThePurist · 02/01/2018 13:59

Courting isn't paternalistic crap for people any more than it is for animals. Boys who like girls want to bring them gifts and pay them compliments. It can be used in a manipulative way, but it doesn't sound like your DS was using it. He was just being himself.

It sounds more like Jess wasn't ready for serious courting. Tell him to find someone who feels the same way about him, at about the same intensity.

SoftSheen · 02/01/2018 14:06

Some girls/women would like your son's approach. It isn't (in itself) manipulative or disrespectful, he just needs to find someone more compatible.

lynmilne65 · 02/01/2018 14:17

queues ?????

FlaviaAlbia · 02/01/2018 14:21

Pedants corner is that way Lyn ->

TheLuminaries · 02/01/2018 15:14

To me, it just sounds like she wasn't that into him. Honestly, dumping someone is hard and if you don't want to grind their self esteem into the floor you have to try and give a reason that is not too cruel. Sounds like a twist on the the classic 'its not you, its me' Grin

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 15:29

“To me, it just sounds like she wasn't that into him”

I’m sure she wasn’t. But dumping was by no means a “let down gently” and the analysis was his, not hers!

I just thought it was interesting, that’s all. In the context of raising men.

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TheLuminaries · 02/01/2018 15:32

Well, in the context of a relationship. if I have the hots for someone I would love the soppy stuff. If I am going off them, it would make my teeth itch. Good chance to educate on reading the signals - a useful life skill for either sex, as we can all be self deluding when it comes to love.

LangCleg · 02/01/2018 15:39

I suppose it's all about his intentions and how he takes rejection of the gestures.

I would agree with that. Probably the most important message you can give him is to take the rejection on the chin and with a bit of non-recriminatory grace. Boys struggle with this, I think.

There are plenty of girls who like romantic boyfriends so if that's how he rolls with these things, there are plenty of fish in his dating sea.

BarbarianMum · 02/01/2018 15:39

This may sound patronising (and it will certainly sound old) but I think when you are a teen you are often as much in love with the idea of love than the actual person. I spent my first couple of relationships expecting/wanting the dark, torrid passion found in creepy teen novels about vampires - rather to the bemusement of my boyfriends (luckily). Then I tried "perfect girlfriend" passive doormat for a bit. Then I grew the fuck up and started having proper relationships. It was definitely a time of trial and error, definitely not helped by the myriad portrayals of relationships which I read about.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 02/01/2018 16:28

“I realize I want a relationship where I can do sweet and romantic things - I could only ever tell Jess [not her real name] that her outfit was nice, not that she was pretty. And she would never let me give her a present”

Assuming your son has not misinterpreted her feelings I think it is very odd to take offence at being given a present. Do girls not give presents to boys in her world view?

And I'm probably on my own on this one but it also seems a bit precious to take exception to your own boyfriend saying you are pretty.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 16:32

Remember you are only getting one side of the story! But I do know she was adamant that he wasn’t to give her a birthday present because he asked me what he should do. No idea about the “pretty” thing - he hadn’t mentioned it before.

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TheLuminaries · 02/01/2018 16:38

I suspect Jess was working up to the dump - have you never felt like that about an ex? Everything they do is annoying, and the nice things they do to make you love them just annoy you more. Tis a relationship issue, not a feminist issue, to my mind. Unless we are meant to criticise Jess for being ungracious and ungrateful? That would be a feminist issue.

guardianfree · 02/01/2018 16:39

LassWiTheDelicateAir
I agree - but I suspect that teenagers are under a barrage of 'advice' and influence from every quarter - from the extreme sex stereotyping, the fall out from #metoo and getting consent right, all the stuff about sexual fluidity / non binary. I am sure that they are having to navigate so many complex issues that previous generations never even thought about and it seems to be removing people's self confidence to just 'read ' ordinary situations.
Sometimes I read Mumsnet and wonder why so many people have to ask 'is this OK?" about the most trivial of issues. It's as if there's a collective fail with people's capacity to manage situations and define 'right and wrong' without a massive consultation with all and sundry. (Not meaning the OP as this is a really interesting point Blush )