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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

My 16 year old ds has just been dumped by first girlfriend....

47 replies

BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 12:17

He’s sad- but has just said “I realize I want a relationship where I can do sweet and romantic things - I could only ever tell Jess [not her real name] that her outfit was nice, not that she was pretty. And she would never let me give her a present”

Not sure what to say to him, to be honest.......gentleness to be encouraged or paternalistic crap to be discouraged?

OP posts:

UpABitLate · 02/01/2018 16:45

I find presents difficult as I am very bad at them and forget birthdays and I'm not a presenty sort of a person.

I remember a bloke I was seeing once gave me some perfume and I was at a total loss as to what to do. It seemed like a weird present (I didn't wear perfume), and was I supposed to buy him something back? Just say thank you? Did I have to wear it all the time? Why had he bought it - it was expensive and we hadn't been seeing each other long - what was the motivation - did he expect something in return and if so what? Or was he just being generous and nice but I'm shit at presents so I'm going to end up looking crap here & etc and so on

I'd genuinely rather he'd not bought it

Everyone's different and he needs to (as a PP said) find someone he is more compatible with. And understand that most girls conform to some stereotypes but not all, same as most boys, and so to get to know someone and then find out what they actually want and like, and then giving them that will be romantic and lovey-dovey, even if what she really wants is to stay in and watch the rugby with a pint of beer

UpABitLate · 02/01/2018 16:46

She probably didn't want a present as she knew she was going off him / going to chuck him and it would feel bad to do that after getting a present.

MephistophelesApprentice · 02/01/2018 16:46

I was like him at that age. Personally I found complimenting their achievements, showing interest in their areas of study and the giving of truly silly amusing gifts stuck a balance between my desire to be 'nice' and their desire to be respected for something other than their looks.

Original poster

BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 17:16

Her birthday was 6 months ago, so unless it's been the slowest burn dump ever.....

I think it's a feminist issue because it's about how we raise our boys there was just something about the "sweet and romantic" thing that set my feministdar off a bit and I was wondering what other people thought.

OP posts:

FlaviaAlbia · 02/01/2018 17:46

I could see a problem with sweet and romantic if it was combined with an expectation of repayment, but if your DS (as much as you know of his love life) is doing it because that's his personality and that's how he's learnt from you and your partner then it's just nice isn't it?

UpABitLate · 02/01/2018 17:47

I think the radar was set off because he wanted to do things for her that he wanted her to link / thought she should like, rather than doing the things he actually knew she liked.

So his stereotype about what a girlfriend / women / romance means, outweighed the actual person he was actually going out with and what they wanted.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 02/01/2018 17:50

I'm not keen on "romantic".

I'm very keen on presents, both giving and receiving. Unless "Jess" never gives or receives presents from anyone then her behaviour does seem rather ungracious.

NotAgainYoda · 02/01/2018 17:58

What UpABitLate said. That's what would worry me. But it doesn't mean that's what he was doing - could be that she simply wasn't as in to him as he was her.

I suppose I'd want to explore with him (somehow) about honest about his own feelings - not wedded to some romantic ideal of a person

I also have boys and it takes up a fair bit of head-space - worrying whether DH and I are raising good men. Worrying whether I am in a danger of putting too much pressure on them to be perfect in this respect.

FlaviaAlbia · 02/01/2018 17:58

I suppose I meant his personality rather than his behaviour. I mean, he didn't do the things she didn't like by the sounds of it.

NotAgainYoda · 02/01/2018 17:58

about being honest about his feelings

Bratwurst43 · 02/01/2018 18:01

I could only ever tell Jess [not her real name] that her outfit was nice, not that she was pretty. And she would never let me give her a present”

I find compliments on my outfit from a partner much more an issue than my appearance from a feminist perspective. (some men will decide on "appropriateness" levels of their girlfriend's clothes for example)

Presumably, your son fancied her so her appearance as attractive to him should never have been in question. Unless he was being very creepy with what he said and I'm sure he wasn't, I would assume that actually she has confidence issues. Some people can't take a compliment well and comments on her looks might have made her uncomfortable whereas a comment on her handbag for example is more neutral territory.

As for buying gifts for her it might have made her feel uncomfortable as though she owed him, she might have hated his gifts, how many Me To You Bears can one girl take? I may be projecting or possibly she couldn't reciprocate and felt awkward?

He's assuming either of those things were the reason she dumped him and not just things he picked up on that were entirely unrelated.

NotAgainYoda · 02/01/2018 18:07

How long did they go out?

I agree that the frequency and value of gifts vs length of relationships might have left me a bit overwhelmed/pressurised or with feelings of obligation that were uncomfortable at that (or any?) age.

Original poster

BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 18:20

“He's assuming either of those things were the reason she dumped him and not just things he picked up on that were entirely unrelated.”

To be fair to him, he isn’t actually assuming that- he doesn’t know exactly why he’s been dumped -apparently they are meeting tomorrow so she can tell him! He was talking about what he had learned and what he would take to his next relationship.

The strong silent type would be much easier to live with.......

OP posts:

Original poster

BertrandRussell · 02/01/2018 18:21

It’s tough, isn’t it, Yoda? I feel singlehandedly responsible for the happiness of my future dil!

OP posts:

Eolian · 02/01/2018 18:27

Tricky. I couldn't be doing with the soppy stuff as an adult - I'd find it a bit creepy and stifling. But I'd probably have loved it as a 16 year-old. I guess it's just all part of learnung what he wants from a relationship and from a partner (and what they want from him).

NotAgainYoda · 02/01/2018 18:27

TheLuminaries · 02/01/2018 20:10

I think the radar was set off because he wanted to do things for her that he wanted her to link / thought she should like, rather than doing the things he actually knew she liked.

So his stereotype about what a girlfriend / women / romance means, outweighed the actual person he was actually going out with and what they wanted

I think this is the feminist issue. There is an implied (and from some posters overt) criticism of Jess as insecure or ungracious. I think he should have respected her wants and likes rather than complain to his mum that she didn't fit his preconceived notion of what girlfriends should be like.

BarbarianMum · 02/01/2018 21:01

I think complaining that your ex wasn't the person you want them to be is fine actually. As is splitting up with someone for that very reason.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 02/01/2018 21:11

He sounds lovely. The idea of spoiling someone can be fine if it’s a two way thing and needn’t be the regular old patriarchal “man chases girl” bullshit but more of a “mutual sop fest” thing.

I’m sure your future DIL will give an Oscar speech at their wedding thanking you personally for what a wonderfully egalitarian son you’ve raised Bertrand!

BiglyBadgers · 02/01/2018 21:18

DH and I are incredibly soppy with each other, but we have been together for a decade. We have been through bereavement and illness and the birth of a child. In short we have a very deep and serious relationship. If he had been like this with me when we had just started going out I would have run a mile.

What I am wondering is that if your ds is taking his cue from you and your dh it may be that he is trying to replicate a level of relationship that is not appropriate for the one he had with his girlfriend. To her this could feel as if he was trying to push her into a level of seriousness she was not ready for. It also suggests that he was not responding to what she wanted from a relationship, but trying to impose a relationship on her she was not seeking.

I think something for him to take from this is that real affection is often something that grows as a relationship progresses. It isn't an all or nothing thing and you don't need to go in all guns blazing to show someone you like them.

Thehogfather · 02/01/2018 23:53

I've had two different boyfriends who could be described as traditionally romantic. Which I'm not.

The first was not at all paternalistic, his compliments weren't limited to looks and no impersonal sweet gestures, he was just a genuinely sweet lad. He just wasn't for me, either at that age or any other. But if a friend or even my dd had a bf like him I'd be very happy for them.

The second was different. If anything more obviously soppy/ romantic, but annoyed me as the first never did. I felt deliberately ignored and as though I was being coached for a lead role in the type of film I'd never watch. Whilst completely ignoring all the things I am interested in. As though his gestures and compliments would turn me into the sweet little lady he wanted. That did make me feel like I was only superficial, he just wanted the basic structure with his own remodelling on the inconvenience of my personality.

I suppose it depends how you define romantic really. Some of the things I've found very touching from another more serious boyfriend wouldn't meet the traditional description of romantic, but meant more because they were personal to me.

CaptainWarbeck · 03/01/2018 00:23

He was talking about what he had learned and what he would take to his next relationship.

I think he sounds alright actually Bert. Not many boys I dated at 16 would have had the emotional maturity to sit and chat about this with a parent.

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