Is the trans movement mainly enforced by a certain generation?

[BornAgainFem]

I'm 30. When I speak to my friends IRL about the infiltration of women's spaces and underlying misogyny in the transgender movement, most of them disagree with me or think I'm fixating on a non-issue.
Most the people who do agree with me are older than me (DM's generation/Julie Bindel/Germaine Greer et al).
My concern is that once that generation die out, noone will be fighting our corner.
The younger generation seem to be much more accepting and forceful of the whole gender trainwagon. Is it going to get a whole lot worse? How many of you on here are 30 and under?

[NotSupposedtobeHere]

I think pregnancy and motherhood have a somewhat radicalising effect

I'm almost 60. I can remember this being said when I was a baby Women's Libber at university in the late 70s/early 80s. And I think it goes back earlier than that. That radical women's health book, Our Bodies, Ourselves is early 70s isn't it? It has some radical stuff to say about pregnancy, childbirth & motherhood, iirc.

[Xenophile]

I have the joy of spending large swathes of time with 18-24 yr olds and I have been quite pleasantly surprised at the analysis they do have of the situation. There are a sizeable chunk of "Oh! You're just a sad, daft old woman, what would you know" but also a good number of people who have seen where trans politics is heading and are fairly horrified by it.

It might help that they are scientists in the making though.

[cromeyellow0]

Here's the table for toilet use, asked of women only. What's interesting is the big shift positive in the youngest age category (have to be a bit cautious because of small numbers, but I guess that it's statistically significant).

[BeyondAssignation]

Identities split into Cis/trans are in the most recent edition of "our bodies, ourselves"

[drspouse]

I think pregnancy and motherhood have a somewhat radicalising effect
Vv true. I'm an adoptive mum and a woman in a fairly male profession (I have good female mentors and contemporaries who are not however my immediate colleagues). But only since having our DS have I really sat up to what's expected of men - and women - in our society. And now we have our DD too.

[BeyondAssignation]

(From one of the reviews posted on the site...
"This revamped edition of OBOS shows just how far we’ve come in the women’s health movement. The level of inclusiveness of my community — those of us who are queer, trans or gender non-conforming — was really remarkable, and a big step forward for a women’s health institution. Even simply running through the biographies of the participants of the relationships chapter shows how far this book has come, and how better we understand the true diversity of our community in terms of identity but also lifestyle")

[IrkThePurist]

BeyondAssignation No! Seriously?

[BeyondAssignation]

😕
www.ourbodiesourselves.org/publications/our-bodies-ourselves-2011/

I've just picked up an older edition on eBay. They just lost a sale, I was hoping to get the newest one.

[SophoclesTheFox]

Oh for fuck's sake, et tu Brute? Our Bodies Our Selves can't even be for women any more?? Jesus.

[SophoclesTheFox]

It doesn't MATTER how fucking gender non conforming you are, if you have a vag, you have a vag and it behoves you to know how it bloody works!

I cannot honestly believe that it is more radical in 2017 to talk about women's genitals than it was in the 1970s. And yet, here we are. We can't talk about women's genitals without some sort of nod to everyone who doesn't have women's genitals but wishes they did, or that does and wishes they didn't.

Come ON. THIS IS NOT PROGRESSIVE!!

[BelaLugosisShed]

I’m 52, my DD is 27, a Teacher and absolutely shares my gender critical views, as does her best friend who is a child protection social worker.
I wonder if it’s the fact that they work in a deprived area of Stoke on trent, not in middle class lala land?

[DonkeySkin]

I'm not surprised to see the figures in crome's tables - of course if you call men 'transgender women', most women are not going to realise that what is being asked is whether they are fine with opening up women's refuges and toilets to men.

This is why the Orwellian neologism 'transwoman' (which has morphed into 'transgender woman') is so harmful. It prevents women from naming, and consequently perceiving, what is actually going on here. Language is everything in the trans debate. Of all the Newspeak that TRAs have come up with ('bottom surgery, 'assigned female/male at birth'), all of which is designed to disappear the reality of sex, 'transwoman' is undoubtedly the most effective and the most damaging.

[MaisyPops]

Late 20s here. Both me and DH can't stand the trans activist movement.

I would happily have a separate wing of a women's refuge for post transition trans women (because they are victim of abuse too) but it wouldn't be happy self identifying penis owners invading female spaces.

I totally support people's rights to identify as trans and believe they should have access to some gender neutral spaces BUT this does not happen at the expence of women's rights.
The trans people I know (which to be fair is only 2) have no desire to be associated with the trans lobby and mermaids type fanatics.

[CaptainWarbeck]

Under 30 here with two small children.

I've been discussing the trans stuff with my sister recently who is early 20s. We generally agree but she is much more of a 'I think I'm quite an inclusive feminist (head tilt) and this just doesn't worry me as much as it does you'. She has a few gender non conforming and non binary friends and doesn't know very much about the TRAs.

She goes to feminist clubs which have gender neutral toilets and it works fine for everyone, so she hadn't seen the issue with safe spaces until we talked about the potential impact on sexual assault survivors and the implications of self identification.

She is in a university liberal bubble and is lucky that the reality of her biology just hasn't affected her yet in terms of pregnancy, childbirth, maternity leave, breastfeeding, workplace discrimination, marital expectations, wifework, motherhood etc.

[Gacapa]

To answer those surveys, I think women need to have clearer information. I suspect many women (and men) are not equipped with the knowledge to understand exactly what transgender woman is an umbrella term for.

It needs to click. Once it does it becomes clear that we are regressing, erasing and setting in motion a misogynistic train wreck.

Peak trans is key.

I'm sure many of us have seen local transsexuals, maybe seen them ridiculed and it's natural to feel empathetic. But this is nothing like that. This is a movement and a cult, appropriating that empathy to coerce women into a dangerous slope of colluding with our erasure. And because of #no debate and threats of violence and the likes of Owen Jones, it's enormously difficult to get the facts out there.

But we fight on. And are ever grateful to MN.

[thebewilderness]

There are other elements involved in promoting gender identity, I think. There is a homophobic interest in transitioning away the gays and lesbians at the earliest possible age. Knowing full well that most young people outgrow their gender identity crisis and reconcile to being homosexual, there are medical professionals putting them on drugs at an earlier and earlier age to lock them in to transitioning.
There is also a misogynist interest in driving women out of the public sphere. The Olympics, an infamously misogynist organization, is permitting trans identified males to compete as women with the same testosterone level that would make a woman ineligible.
Adding the T to LGB necessarily included men with AGP fetishes arguing that they are women if they way they are.

[thebewilderness]

The survey responses change dramatically when the questions are more detailed. Many women are shocked when they find out that most trans women do not surgically transition. Not surprising since everything we have read and seen for fifty years regarding transitioning emphasizes the surgical transition.

[makeourfuture]

Young people are not naive. They know how badly we boomers have hurt them.

Can we lecture them after giving them financial collapse, Brexit and Trump?

[makeourfuture]

And the problem is Owen Jones?

[BigGreenOlives]

My teenage daughter told me that my ideas will die out with my generation. My daughter who is a bit (but not much older) is worried about the erosion of women’s rights.

[totallywired]

I’m 40 and friends of mine support the rights of trans people to wear what they like and have people use their preferred pronoun, but don’t believe trans women are actual women. Also everyone I know thinks the need to precisely label your sexuality/gender and use a newly invented pronouns is ridiculous.

My husband however supported the notion that trans women are women and I suspect he thought I was bigoted for disagreeing. He’s a probation officer though and when he had women coming out of prison complaining that a person with a penis was in prison with them the penny dropped.

Also at my children’s primary school a boy felt that he was actually a girl, started wearing skirts, changed their name etc. There were parents who objected to her using the girls loos and the school ended up assigning one of the loos gender neutral (the best compromise imho)

[Thermostatpolice]

I agree with PPs that the most vocal young people are providing the fuel but not the trajectory of transactivism. They have the time and energy. I can't quite pinpoint where the general impetus comes from.

Young women usually don't yet realise what biology will do to their lives as they progress through the life cycle. I certainly didn't (late 40s).

Today's young women are in for a very hard time. Their generation will face economic struggles that mine didn't and I don't envy them at all. They will have to compete for housing, employment, keeping their heads above water whilst simultaneously trying to offset the reproductive disadvantage of being female. Added to which, when it comes to competition for resources men always come out on top.

For them it will be absolutely essential that they can name the problem of extra disadvantage due to being female. Many YP aren't on board with TRA stuff but for, those young women who are, it's a case of turkeys voting for Christmas.

[HemlockSpartacus]

I was fully libfem until pregnancy, then biology has a tendency to jump up and not allow you to ignore it

[makeourfuture]

Their generation will face economic struggles that mine didn't and I don't envy them at all. They will have to compete for housing, employment, keeping their heads above water

I wonder if someone here can draw a link, please, between these conditions and Owen Jones? Or the "left-wing university bubble"?