Impact of birth injuries/prolapse etc

[QuentinSummers]

Just read this article in the Guardian and am shocked by just how prevalent prolapse are. This is a feminist issue surely?
Timely for me because I have some kind of issue and don't want to go to the doctor
amp.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2017/dec/28/vaginal-health-post-partum-maternity-rectocele

Doyouthinktheysaurus are you a member of the Sling the Mesh group on facebook? You'll find a lot of support there as well.

I had mesh prolapse surgery this year, after ten years of continence problems that doctors dismissed this as "well you are a vegetarian, my wife is a vegetarian and she always have bowel problems", or because I was a highly strung young woman that should try CBT or yoga.

Even now, been finally diagnosed correctly, I'm questioned and interrogated at every turn, as although prolapse is mostly seen in women after traumatic birth, I have never been pregnant and was only 18 when I started experiencing problems. It was left to get so bad that I had no other option than the surgery and now I've been left maimed, with a body that won't be the same again and an unknown future, where I am to exist until the mesh erodes or fails (I've been told that ultimately it will) and then get in touch where there will then look to create a stoma.

I feel that institutionally, the perception exists that women's bodies are just faulty, that they just "go wrong". And because they have menstrual pain; they are incontinent; they are just more sickly, we are more tied to biology and have an understanding of it - so we should have a higher threshold of just putting up with it.

Hinged, I think mine had started to develop before pregnancy, though obviously I can't check that now! I have EDS and have already had a inguinal hernia repair as a child.

I've spoken with lots of women with EDS that have said that it was their pregnancies and labours that exacerbated existing problems for them. I have hEDS myself.

Interesting thread... thanks for linking to the article...

Absolutely a feminist issue. As is the treatment, the vaginal mesh scandal, the emphasis on women being able to have sex even though it's painful etc.

I'm 5 week's post partum with no.2, I'm sure I'm prolapsed and I will be putting my foot down about seeing a specialist at my 8 week check.

I've also had two episiotomies, both have healed well but the second one, Well I wouldn't let that doctor darn my socks, small lump of skin near the base of the year where the sides haven't met correctly, plus stitches done so tight I couldn't sit until they'd dissolved.

I'm a horse rider so being able to sit on my arse is pretty damn important.

Oh and the piles.

I feel like I've been turned inside out.

Absolutely a feminist issue.

I suspect there are thousands of us who never talk about it. I certainly never have. Three DC and a forceps birth have basically finished my bits off. I don't really have a perineum and I have strange lumpy scar tissue from previous tears. I have front and rear prolapses which don't give me too much trouble but mean any kind of sport, running, gym class or horse riding are out of the question. If I get a cold or cough I have to take to the tena pads for the duration.

Fortunately I am not looking for another relationship but if I were I think the sight of my poor old bits would put any bloke off.

The cost of a CS falls on the NHS. If it goes wrong it goes wrong in hospital and they have to do stuff. It’s not invisible like women’s suffering.

Unfortunately, this isn't necessarily true. I have had terrible problems, mentally and physically since my elcs, and apart from being put on antidepressants for PTSD, my concerns have been dismissed and I have found it incredibly difficult to find any sort of support.

I really struggle with the idea that an elcs is automatically going to be a better birth than a vaginal birth (even a birth with difficulties - I have suffered double incontinence and painful sex after my vaginal births - my elcs was still the worst birth of the 3). I felt like an enormous failure after having ds, I had read so many threads about how calm and in control their elective caesareans were, and here I was, having flashbacks and nightmares, with infections in my wound and veins, feeling like my body wasn't mine any more.

I do think that the aftercare, long and short term, of any birth where there are complications, us appalling, and a large part of this shocking lack of care is because we are women, this is our biology, the hand we are dealt and we have to just crack on.

It only impacts women, women are expected to suffer in silence, society makes them feel ashamed/embarrassed to discuss it and when they do, their experiences are minimised and dismissed. Damn right it is a Feminist Issue OP.

I do trampolining and the sheer number of women who tell me that they couldn’t set foot on a trampoline in case of wetting themselves is ridiculous. And for the record, I used to wet myself too - I discovered quite by accident that a mooncup holds everything up and allows me to bounce with impunity. I weed myself the other day coughing (not wearing mooncup at time).

I haven’t had a prolapse. 1 VB and 2 ELCS, no tearing. And I still wee.

I have fucking shit hips after SPD in all three pregnancies and when my hips/pelvic bones move my issues with coughing/sneezing get worse. However, I rang the MSK line to self-refer for pain in my hips/pelvis and was told by the woman that they didn’t do pelvic floor issues. I told her the problem was my skeleton moving so she went off to talk to a physio and came back to say the physio has confirmed it was something they would deal with. My area only has a self-referral line for physio issues and there is no information about women’s health on the supporting website and if they don’t do pelvic floors then I have no idea where you go with those. Oh, and that was 8 weeks ago and I’m still waiting...

I was going to link to the MN webchat on prolapses but Terry has beaten me to it

I'm a prolapse veteran, sadly. Gave birth ten years ago, fourth degree tear, wasn't repaired properly, had NO idea about prolapses and suffered in silence with incontinence issues as I hadn't had adequate follow up. Fast forward and following a completely embarrassing episode on holiday where i totally lost control and wet myself, a GP diagnosed prolapse and referred me to a Urogynaecologist. I had bladder and bowel repair and perineum rebuild (as I only had a sliver of scar tissue that masqueraded as a perineum). Sadly that surgery failed and I was re-referred.

Whereby after seeing a colorectal team, they discovered I had a ruptured sphincter. Hardly any muscle. The recommendation was straight to permanent colostomy or risk a repair. I opted for the latter. It may well be that I'll have no option other than colostomy later on but, for now, the sphincter repair is holding Further surgery next year to re-do prolapses and probable hysterectomy.

The MN webchat is Jan 23rd and anyone wishing to join APOPS will find an informative, unbiased and supportive group.

I have suffered. And I'm fucking furious that this topic isn't being discussed more, researched more, screened more and of paramount importance, taken more bloody seriously other than to just "get on with it" and "it's to be expected" and the like.

Awareness CAN lead to prevention. Things like massaging perineums, optimum birthing positions and so many more.

Fuck, I'd have even settled for even KNOWING it existed FFS.

hazeyjane and others, so sorry if I implied I thought an elcs would be an 'easier' choice - I don't think that and worded my post clumsily. I was trying to say that the mothers I know who are also doctors (all GPs) had opted for elcs, and they had all said it was to avoid these post-birth injuries that they see so often in their work. Sounds like you have had a horrible time hazeyjane, I am really sorry

Indeed Hazey and I’m sorry you had such an awful experience. I certainly don’t think CS is the easy option - yours obviously was not at all an easy option.

I was only trying to compare the levels of disclosure about each route.

I felt highly dubious about the NHS’s language around birth. So I did my own research about the risks and I felt that there was clarity about the risks with CS. The risk of birth injuries with vaginal birth and (worse) the risk of serious damage to the baby was almost completely hidden.

It’s all a joke.
I’ve now 4 months post partum after a traumatic delivery with 5 hours of pushing, Kielland forceps birth, episiotomy, manual removal of placenta and who knows what else, which has ruined me. Had to have 5 courses of antibiotics for recurrent infections & then cauterised for excess scar tissue.
I feel like I have a bulge down there when I stand for too long & I can’t have sex because the pain is excruciating.
Scared to go to the doctor because I know I’ll get the pity face and the “well you know after what you’ve been through 4 months isn’t a long time”

I am 50 and a few years ago I had a TVT (mesh repair)

This was for urinary incontinence caused by two vaginal births. The first was an emergency episiotomy (was massive) - baby was only 4.5lbs but I was very ill. Second baby was 6.5lb but I was 'allowed' to tear.

All this happened when I was in my late teens and early twenties - by the time I was 45 I was pissing myself when I stepped off a kerb.

If I was a man ......

2 ElCS here, never been into labour - but still have prolapse and rectocele. At the moment it's manageable and I'm hoping it'll stay that way.

This thread is eye opening. I had a third degree tear with my first child. The midwife and the obstetrician who stitched me up were very reassuring about it, said it was only just a third degree and told me I would have a follow up appointment with physio. I was visited on the antenatal ward by a physio in the morning, having not slept for over a day, alone as DH had popped home for a shower, and I was failing miserably at feeding DS so I was already utterly miserable. She basically handed me a leaflet on pelvic floor exercises, told me there was a fair chance of fecal incontinence and said they'd be in touch to arrange a follow up appointment before swanning off leaving me on the verge of tears. After assorted tests and being poked and prodded in places I really don't want to be poked and prodded (admittedly by very nice people!) the uro-gynae consultant and colorectal consultant both said I should have an elcs for any future births. So when I went to see the consultant obstetrician with DS2 to discuss an elcs, on telling her my symptoms (stress incontinence and pain during sex) I wasn't really expecting to be fobbed off with "Oh, Well, that's just a normal part of childbirth". Fortunately I didn't have to fight as she didn't want to go against her colleagues but without the recommendation of two very highly esteemed (and dare I say - male) consultants I don't think an elcs would have been granted so easily.

Over 3.5 years on from DS1's birth I still have some incontinence, sex is still painful (it stings right where I was stitched up) and I can feel bulges where I'm sure I shouldn't have them so I'm worried I have a prolapse of some sort, but I'm so nervous of being dismissed that I haven't plucked up the courage to see the GP about it.

Oh...and despite the consultant OB agreeing to an elcs the hospital forgot to actually book it! So they weren't best pleased when I rocked up at 5am in labour asking for my c section. The community midwife chased it up with them the day before I went in to labour and the hospital midwife she spoke to said I was on their list and they'd be in touch at some point that week. But when I went in the following day no-one I spoke to knew anything about it 🙄

Another prolapse here, two actually rectocele and cystocele. I had an induced labour, pushed for close to 2 hours and then an episiotomy and forceps delivery of a 9lb6 baby. My episiotomy then became infected and I had a 4cm clot removed from it as well when it was cleaned out and restitched. I remember washing in the shower and discovering this bulge a month postpartum and being so upset. It was 4 years ago on Christmas eve actually. I need surgery but was told it was best to wait til I finished my family. My gynae confirmed I was doing all the exercises correctly but that they could only do so much. My cystocele isn't too bad but my rectocele is. 4 years of not being able to poo properly, of the most horrendous sounding wind due to the errr cavernous nature of my rectocele , painful sex and aching vag if I stand for too long.
I'm pregnant now with my second and worried about the further damage that labour and delivery might cause. Having hyperemesis again has meant I've peed myself multiple times a day, I should have stock in tena lady at this point.
Nobody warned me about this and I am so scared it will get worse and that with the way waiting lists are plus the fall out of the mesh scandal will mean waiting a long long time to get surgery.
I was the youngest person in the clinic I went to, by at least 20 years. I don't for a momany think there aren't lots of other women in their 30s affected, we just don't talk about it. We just get on with it, assume it is our new normal and we shouldn't make a fuss.

Another one with prolapse, a rectocele. I've 3 children, episiotomy with the first 2, tore with the last. It still hurts after sex 16 years on.

I wet myself if I don't go as soon as I need to and also if I run, cough or sneeze. I also have psoriasis so tena pads make me sore.

I get constipated and often have to use a finger inside me (with disposable gloves on) to be able to go

I've seen a physiotherapist and was told I was barely moving anything when squeezing my pelvic floor muscles. I was given a machine to use but hated the feeling. Now I just put up with it.

I had my first two children in Germany and over there (at the time) you attended free post natal classes where you did pelvic floor exercises.

Thank you for starting this thread.
Am reading in sadness. Absolutely right it's a feminist issue

The way women’s groin injuries are ignored is disgraceful. I had some urinary in continence after my third, I reported it to the GP and for years got nothing other than advice to do my pelvic floor exercises even though I was doing them religiously. No special physio referall or machine to help me (which is standard in France). Eventually I got a referral and was told I could have a simple op. On the day of the op I read about the mesh scandal and asked my surgeon whether I was having mesh. He said I wasn’t, if was a sling. I tried to ask further questions and he was dismissive and said he would have to cancel my surgery if I was worried. At this point I was all gowned up and terrified of waiting another two years for treatment so went ahead.

The bastard had lied and the fucking sling was mesh. I now have constant pain and can’t do half the things a mother should do with her kids. I live in constant fear of it getting worse as per many women I have read about. I may soon have to give up my career as the pain is debilitating. I am now having to fight for a referral to a mesh injury centre but again it’s a fight.

My husband recently had a problem with his foreskin years ago. Caused less than half the problems I have had. He was referred to a specialist the first time he went to the GP and had a circumcision within six weeks. Nobody suggested he try some exercises alone for two years, or took pain killers and lived with it, or paid privately because specialists were too scarce, or didn’t question his surgeon before the op. Our experiences were chalk and cheese.

That's so shocking Eva .

I don't know why but it reminds me of the gynae surgeon who took out my uterine polyps. He kept saying there was no option but removal because they might turn cancerous, but point blank refused to tell me what that risk actually was. He kept saying 'under 1%', but when I asked 'more like 0.9% or more like 0.0001%?' just stared at me and repeated 'under 1%'. It was actively withholding information that would have led me to an informed decision, and like you I just ended up agreeing to surgery because I felt I had no option. I genuinely think some surgeons go into gynae because of the power trip it allows them over women.

There are indeed some shocking stories surrounding these issues which is why I pushed for the webchat. Simply not enough awareness.

Do we think MN may help by way of a campaign? Something needs to be done

I have had two perfectly normal births, no tear, no help.. I read everything, perineal massage, all the correct positioning.. I walked out thinking labour was much better than 9 months of pregnancy.

I also knew of prolapse, having had several family member suffer..

But I'm 30. I have pains, I've always had pain and assumed it was how endo felt post baby..

After a disaster gynae referral who refused to Dr me without hormone meds I was referred to general surgery.. Turns out these pains are results of prolapse.

It's not enough knowing the possibility, it's fighting for someone to hear your pain and a lot of the time we are expected to get on with it, it's part of being female. Ridiculous.