Impact of birth injuries/prolapse etc

[QuentinSummers]

Just read this article in the Guardian and am shocked by just how prevalent prolapse are. This is a feminist issue surely?
Timely for me because I have some kind of issue and don't want to go to the doctor
amp.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2017/dec/28/vaginal-health-post-partum-maternity-rectocele

I have been banging on to DH that this is a feminist issue since I had a 3b tear giving birth to DS.

I was in no way prepared for the reality of this type of birth injury (altogether I have been amazingly lucky to heal very well and have no continence issues).

The shame which surrounds women's genitals and the cult of 'natural birth' leads to a culture of silence around birth injuries. I think there is also something around the difficulty in getting medical attention for eg pain during sex - you have to fight against the idea that a woman who has chosen to be a mother is no longer a sexual being.

Add in that these problems can get worse with age, so that we are talking about older women who might want to enjoy penetrative sex, and you also have to fight against ageism.

I'm sure others will be much more coherent in their analysis but I agree a millionty percent that it is a feminist issue.

for those who are suffering

Thanks for sharing the article. I think we're definitely just expected to get on with it. Feeling broken and being left with pain, numbness, and literally bits hanging out is just seen as normal, and THAT is not normal.

Mesh isn't the only option. My surgery didn't involve mesh

Thank god, not that the doctors seemed to particularly care according to the news.

We went to one of those trampoline places over Christmas - well.. lets just say I thought I was fine, but things definitely aren't as they were!

C-sections are so variable - my first EMCS was with 2, young, women women. I couldn't stand upright for a week, I needed the painkillers, I felt everything dissolve as it healed, but I was back to as I was.

My second was NHS, and much more of a cut and shut job. Sure, I was happy to drive in a fortnight, and didn't need anything past paracetamol from the second day, but I now have a MASSIVE overhang, which get heat rash even in winter if I'm not meticulous, and looks awful.

People say that it's just that it's my second pregancy that did it, but I know how it felt during healing, I know that they just didn't do as good a job sewing me back up, and I'm the one suffering for it.

Also, I think there is a pressure on women not to talk about birth injuries as 'it was all worth it to get my baby'. This is illogical to me as of course it's not a binary choice between birth injury vs no baby, but I think a lot of people feel that way which contributes to the culture of silence and shame.

I think it’s a massive lack of knowledge problem. I’m a Physio, had a proplapse, kenw it wasn’t right. Saw a women’s health Physio fairly quickly but gave pelvic floor exercises, so this is supposedly good treatment BUT it took so much more than that to get myself better- postural work, specific yoga- pelvic floor exercises were just a small part. I don’t think we should take this to mean we should avoid vaginal childbirth- prolapses can occur just with pregnancy and are common with the menopause too but what we do need is better awareness, better treatment and timing escalation is Physio etc doesn’t work. Personally I’m terrified of the prospect of surgery should my self management fail, especially when I go through the menopause as having seen the mesh scandal unfold makes me seriously question to quality of surgical options.

That’s my issue with the NHS arguing that vaginal births are better (ie cheaper). I think the truth is the price for a vaginal birth and its negative effects largely falls on the mother in the form of incontinence, pain, lack of sexual function. It’s a cost to individual women. And therefore doesn’t count. The cost of a CS falls on the NHS. If it goes wrong it goes wrong in hospital and they have to do stuff. It’s not invisible like women’s suffering.

I think the whole vaginal mesh surgery thing and possible risks of surgery are enough to put anyone off from seeking help as well. It's like there's a conspiracy of silence at every level, first women are expected to put up with permanent pain and discomfort after childbirth, and then if they do get it fixed, pain and horrendous complications from the surgery are brushed under the carpet as well

It's taken some searching, but I've found my post from a year ago (very hard when you forget your own posting names!)

...

The palaver to sort my rectocele and cystocele was ridiculous. GP (gynae specialism) diagnosed and referred me to gynaecology, the registrar I saw said there was nothing abnormal at all and it was just post-childbirth normalness. Broke my heart at that after the trouble I was having, doubly incontinent and in constant pain with it. Took another two years to psych myself up to ask for a second opinion - diagnosed finally and referred for surgery.

Waited another two years for the surgery, had it just before xmas (2015). And now I'm gonna paste a post of mine from another recent thread (seriously, I could rant on this subject all day!!!)

...

I recently had a gynae op. Few weeks later, I woke up one morning having bled heavily overnight. The pad I was using was completely saturated. I called the gynae ward and was asked about seventy two million times if it was my period. (Like a woman in her thirties doesn't know what a period looks like!) Went in to see a doctor, they said it was an infection causing the wound to swell and pull apart, gave me ABs and sent me home (to get extra annoyed, I am immunocompromised and was advised I would need prophylactic ABs, but the gynae's said there was no need...)

Later that day I started bleeding very heavily. I sat in the empty bath having no idea how to cope with the sheer quantity, and it was literally pouring out. Called the gynae ward who again ask if it is my period. It doesn't stop after about an hour of me lying horizontal in the bath, so they say to go in. I attempt to get ready to leave and pass out on the landing. DH rings for an ambulance on advice of gynae. First response paramedic arrives and mentions that he has been told I have heavy vaginal bleeding and is it my period. (🙄) He attempts to get me out of the house ignoring me telling him that being vertical is making it worse, I pass out on the stairs leaving a lovely puddle of blood. He calls for an ambulance, who again ask about vaginal bleeding. Rather than use a stretcher, they again do their best to keep me vertical with blood pouring out. Wait a while but do eventually get to hospital, admitted straight into gynae- stitches have ripped open, end up staying in for nearly a week, and then had a few weeks of anaemia on top of that.

Again and again and again I was asked if it was my period, despite telling people 1. It wasn't, it was bright red, thin pulsating blood, and 2. I had just had an operation and had stitches internally (plus 3. I have a coil and don't get proper periods anyway!)

I honestly feel that even in the gynae department itself, "vaginal bleeding" was written off as unimportant and something not to make a fuss over.

Well. I don't talk about it a lot because I don't want to terrify childless/first time pregnant women. And it's done. Nothing I could have done to prevent it I don't think and I don't like dwelling on the fact my vagina is destroyed and my insides might be falling out
BUT maybe not talking about it isn't helping? What shocked me the most about that article was the 40% figure. At the same time though, it's reassuring that what I'm going through isn't unusual. Maybe we need to talk about it more?

Also (I am waffling, sorry) I think it's the collision of less-than-perfect vagina with toilet issues. It's doubly unfeminine

beyond

You surgeon did front and back repair. Essentially she pulled both sides back into place and stitched them there. I have scar tissue, inside the vagina. But no more stress incontinence, no more splinting during bowel movements.

I was amazed at the 40% figure too. I'm going to make it a mission to talk to female friends about this, it's mad that so many of us are apparently suffering in silence.

Backing, you said something there, sister.

Backing, you said something there, sister.
Yes she did. Great post backing

Obstetrics and gynaecology practice as a whole is a feminist issue. The SHIT women are expected to put up with. Think of the brutal, mutilating things done to women during childbirth. I'm thinking of forceps specifically - medieval (literally) devices that have barely changed design in centuries because they do the job - get the baby out - and the damage they can do to a women is basically inconsequential. And as for gynaecology, women are expected to put up with agonisingly heavy periods with undiagnosed endometriosis because, well, that's their normal.

I too had a third degree tear giving birth to my first child, and I'll be amazed if I don't have a rectocele. I'm currently trying to decide whether it's worth mentioning to my GP, because frankly I have neither the time nor the childcare to attend hospital appointments and undergo tests and exams

Fought to have an elective section for baby #2 and faced a consultant who dismissed my fears that I'd tear again. Because once you've given birth once, you've been loosened up and the next one slides right on out, right? Never mind the fact I can barely tolerate a speculum going in, let alone a baby coming out. Anyway, I stood my ground there, but was made to feel completely irrational (and it was recorded as being on mental health grounds, not physical).

I had to fight for a section after 2 3rd degree tears hey. When I said to the consultant I was worried about tearing again he said not to as they would just stitch it up again. Despite the fact in my second birth I was told it was hard to repair because "there's only so many times you can stitch scar tissue".
It fucked me right off.

The consultant me "We could always do an episiotomy", quentin.

Because yeah, once you've experienced a perineal tear and repair surgery, what you definitely want is an episiotomy.

And, AND, the Royal College of Obstetrics & Gynaecology's own guidelines for birth after third degree tear stated that prophylactic episiotomy is not recommended.

Whilst tears aren't a hazard of c-sections, just to add a note here that c-sections are not a magic bullet to prevent problems with the pelvic floor after having children.

The act if being pregnant alone can weaken muscles and cause problems. The preventive effect of having a c-section are somewhat overstated and each subsequent pregnancy increases that risk anyway.

Yes it can reduce the risk, but the key point, is it only reduces the risk. It does not eliminate it. And only works if a woman only gives birth via c-section. (Its not preventive to have a c-section after a vb for pelvic floor muscles - it can only prevent injury caused by specifically from tears)

I've read much which is misleading on this and doesn't properly inform women about the pros and cons.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3059452-MN-Can-we-please-support-highlight-this?pg=4

After Shakey's valiant effort to drum up support, there is a webchat due on 23 January with Sherrie Palm www.pelvicorganprolapsesupport.org/

Menopause is another one. There are now new NICE guidelines on management and hrt in place, since November 1015 with lots of people pushing education for health professionals, but sometimes you think they must sit with their fingers in their ears

Re talking about it more, there is a raggedy bits thread somewhere on MN which is eye opening.

Yy red, I was consultant-led and offered a ELCS for ds2 as my prolapse had already been diagnosed by the GP, but it was made very clear that it wouldn't prevent the pregnancy itself exacerbating the problem. (I went with a VB, and he came out relatively simply compared to his brother!)

(and it was recorded as being on mental health grounds, not physical)

Its written all over my notes that my c-section granted on grounds of mental health.

However in the official classification for the hospital its recorded as 'maternal request'.

Classification for csections are a joke and massively inconsistent.

I have issues leftover from pregnancy and childbirth, but mostly from skin tags leftover from hemorrhoids. I need to see a gp for surgery but am embarrassed.

Definitely a feminist issue. I have suffered for 15 years after a forceps delivery and there is no end in sight.

I had a prolapsed womb soon after the birth and was brushed off by my GP. I then had a radical hysterectomy due to cancer which resolved the womb issue but I still have a rectocele which has never been treated. I had surgery for a 'vault prolapse' following the hysterectomy as they took my cervix and top of my vagina as well but it didn't fully resolve the issue and the rectocele has worsened. I am entirely disillusioned with the NHS and am reluctant to put myself through the system again at the moment.

I feel really strongly that if men had to deal with the injuries from forceps that women did, they would never be used. They are an instrument of torture. MN is the only place I have ever seen birth injuries openly discussed and I have been so grateful for this site over the years.

I don't talk about it much irl, shame and embarrassment prevent me. Even my own mum knows very little.

Thanks everyone for sharing. I feel much less alone. Love this board.