"Gender" on a form

[Beltane18]

I have just had to fill in a form for some training

It is a really unprofessional form in the sense that it's poorly formatted etc

but what they did do, very carefully, was to allocate 2 genders, male and female... and then write in the boxes in brackets that Female includes if you transitioned to be a woman - and also the same for Men.

SO ANNOYING.

I can't complain because I will be accused of hate speech at work.

It doesn't sound as if that question is poorly formatted or unclear.

They've put in some effort to make it clear so that you can give them the information they want.

no, I meant the form otherwise was poorly formatted and unclear

it's set up so it jumps all over the place, isn't clear how you should select your options etc...

but then you get to the "gender" question and all is perfect and correct. It's like they wouldn't dare risk getting anything wrong about that one!!

and of course all the information "they" want is "what gender box have you decided to occupy" - NOT what is your biological sex. Which would actually be relevant for this form. But of course biological sex is to be done away with.

I'd have just crossed it out and written "sex - female" underneath.

It's a kind of virtue signaling I think, trying to show that they are not transphobic or that they are explicitly trans inclusive.

If they were trying to use the data to look at sex discrimination then they should ask people what their sex is. If they're interested in gender identity and discrimination around that then they should have asked for that. And given all the options for gender identity such as none/non-binary/gender-fluid/etc etc etc.

I'd be inclined to write that I didn't have a gender. Non binary people would be up in arms!

yes, Assassinated, I want to but seriously fear being accused of hate speech

they have given other options but it's set up so you can you say "I am female because transwomen are transwomen" if you see what I mean.

in terms of what they are interested in, I guess they are probably interested in ticking all the boxes HR told them to tick.

I just crossed out the 'gender' box and replaced it with 'sex'. In an NHS form. For my daughter, via her school (flu spray).

That's when I realised that all the stuff about transgender activists on MN wasn't internet froth, but something that actually affects me.

Is biological sex relevant for the training?

The people running it seem pretty clear on what they want you to tell them, and it's not that.

Ereshkigal - yes, I'm wondering if I ought to do that. In the absence of just "female" perhaps that's the right thing to do.

also it has asked about gender. I don't believe in gender as such, so there's kind of no answer.

When I fill out forms asking for gender or gender identity I've started ticking 'other' and writing in: 'I do not have a gender identity. My biological sex is female.' It's true! Up to them whether they use their common sense and record me as female, or put me in the super-special non-binary box instead.

I don't see any problem with that. Unless the training is how to locate your own cervix or something.

I like the crossing out idea.

What can I do if the form is online? This has really been annoying me recently.

Trills if they want gender Id rather than sex then the form is hopeless as large numbers of people do not identify as one gender or the other, agender/non-binary people. Which if gender is read literally, encompasses most people.

So many people who want to make a point about not letting a trans person into their female group out of principle. All the same people who say that they don't have a problem with genuine trans people and aren't transphobic and do know that trans exists blah blah blah.

Trills "Is biological sex relevant for the training?"

no more or less relevant than gender or the other questions they are asking.

OH DEAR.

Clearly it's the end of the world. 🙄

Jesus. Find something important to complain about.

You said NOT what is your biological sex. Which would actually be relevant for this form.

Now you're saying neither is relevant? Or they both are?

Someone's on their lunch break and there's not much going on. Any more threads you'd like to drop into to froth at, laudanum?

I routinely cross out 'gender' and replace it with 'sex' on forms. My DC were recently weighed and measured at school as part of an NHS monitoring programme. As part of this I had to fill in a form for each of them where there was a box for gender - you could tick male, female or 'prefer not to answer'. I crossed out gender and wrote sex, and ticked the appropriate boxes for my DC.

It took me a lot of self-restraint not to add: 'You mean sex not gender. This is a medical form so I'm almost certain that it is biological difference that you are actually interested in here. Gender has nothing whatsoever to do with height and weight. Gender is a social construct, FYI.'

What’s the issue?

You tick the box that you identify with, no problems.

Some people really do love to find fault where there is none! Or are you upset because you identify as a genderless alien from the planet zorf and there isn’t an option for that on your poorly formatted form.

Honestly love, just get a grip here, it’s a form, it offers two choices, you only have two fucking choices.

I'm glad I'm not the only one adjusting forms! I've also taught my children to.

In that situation I’d cross the question through and write “I do not identify with the concept of gender, my sex is female”.

I usually just cross through gender and write ‘sex’ and tick female.

I appreciated the MN survey recently which just asked “Are you: male, female, other”

oh Trills, sorry, I see what you mean..

okay, in the context of the data they allegedly want to gather e.g. making sure no one is under represented by race, religion, blah, you'd think a biological sex question would be more relevant, or separate to, a gender question.

Essentially I find the question disturbing because it says "trans woman = woman" and that's exactly what I am worried about now.

So if they have a target of having x% of training course places occupied by women, that target is meaningless if it includes a man who is pretending he is a woman and has had no medical treatment.

they have given other options

VerticalBlinds the OP has said there were other options on the form, so she is not defending nonbinary people from being forced to choose one or the other.
She is apparently just upset by the idea that a trans woman might tick the same box on the form as her?

MotherofPearl I agree that a medical form needs to be much clearer - and the squeamish use of "gender" to avoid writing the word "sex" (oo-er) doesn't help at all. The form in the OP is very clear that they do not mean biological sex.

X-posted there.

Pricilla "You tick the box that you identify with, no problems."

I can't. They haven't given me "biological female" as an option.