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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Had a reply from my MP re GRA - head is spinning S.O.S

81 replies

TheRollingCrone · 20/12/2017 20:17

So wrote to my MP, for context, urban,large city, Labour male MP. Got my reply and feel like I am living in an episode of The Twilight Zone.

To condense: he's aware of the current discussion around - wait for it- around BATHROOMS , but am I aware that Transwomen are a very vulnerable group and more likely to encounter violence? sorry how many women are murdered every fucking week.

He is sure that womens safe spaces will be protected. From who? men who identify as men?

What can I do.I'm neither intelligent or articulate.I sent him the sage link, told him of my concerns for young children/adolescents. He just does not get it.

We're gonna lose this arn't we?

OP posts:
perfectly · 21/12/2017 18:49

The OP stated in the OP:

What can I do.I'm neither intelligent or articulate.I sent him the sage link, told him of my concerns for young children/adolescents. He just does not get it.

BatShite · 21/12/2017 18:51

Anyone who calls themselves a feminist but can suggest the Daily Mail as a place to widen their reading is seriously misguided.

Yes, as if there was not reason to suspect already, this one thing alone should be proof enough that perfectly is not posting in good faith.

perfectly · 21/12/2017 18:52

And I was pointing out that even the nastiest of right wing rags the DM is more empathetic towards trans folk than mumsnet.

perfectly · 21/12/2017 18:54

Believe me I am posting with the very best faith there is. Do you really want Mumsnet to silence anyone who disagrees with you?!

BatShite · 21/12/2017 18:56

Do you really want Mumsnet to silence anyone who disagrees with you?!

Again, noone said that. But keep on arguing against things that were never said to start with. You are good at that.

sleighbellend · 21/12/2017 18:56

And TRAs accuse radical feminists of siding with right wingers Hmm

LangCleg · 21/12/2017 18:58

You need to try harder, perfectly. Being rude to an OP and repeating gaslighting points that the OP has probably already seen you making on the other thread, is unlikely to change her opinion.

BatShite · 21/12/2017 19:00

Sorry I just do not believe that anyone who claims to be a feminist would be directing anyone to the daily mail for a balanced view. Just as unbelievable as accidentally happening upon a deleted tweet the other day Grin

Ereshkigal · 21/12/2017 19:03

Yep Grin

perfectly · 21/12/2017 20:11

This one was posted on here at the time it was published and in my opinion gives the most balanced view:

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/18/identity-issue-our-age-talk-more-honestly-trans-women

Ereshkigal · 21/12/2017 20:19

Yes Hadley is respectfully gender critical. It didn't stop a transactivist crowing at her miscarriage because of her "sly transphobic violence".

Original poster
TheRollingCrone · 21/12/2017 20:39

Sorry at work all day, will read all reply. Thank you for all the good advice.

Re not being articulate or intelligent: I'm able to read an argument, make my own decisions as to what I think. I have 3 O levels 😊 no one even remember s them! But I read and read and read. But I'm probably not as well informed as women here.

I do realise my views on this subject are polar opposite to many people, men women and they offer very good reasons and arguments as to why the proposed legislation isn't a problem.
Do you know what worrise me most #nodebate. Just No to that.

OP posts:
PricklyBall · 21/12/2017 21:10

I remember O levels, RollingCrone. Hello there from someone of a similar vintage (I'm guessing).

You're absolutely right - the "no debate" thing is the most terrifying prospect in so many ways. Once you've thrown away free speech, you really are up shit creek without a paddle as a society.

Nineteenagain · 21/12/2017 21:13

I remember O levels!

laudanum · 21/12/2017 21:15

Trans people are very safe in the UK, unlike women.

Trans people are NOT at all safe. The irony of this statement in a thread where transphobic people spew bile freely, is indicative of that. Women are under fire all the time - we can agree on that. However, trans people, are seriously in danger too. Wake up.

Original poster
TheRollingCrone · 21/12/2017 21:30

laudenum I also think the proposed legislation will make life harder and endanger transwomen/men, I do realise that's just one of the awful possible outcomes of rushed ill thought out polic.

If there's #nodebate -nobodies voice gets heard including transwomen/men, except one small vocal group.

Well constituency office is open again in the new year, I will email Roger
Godsiff back, asking him for a meeting.I will also email the Tory, Lib dem
Green candidates as suggested.

Thank you all for your views and advice

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 21/12/2017 21:52

"in a thread where transphobic people spew bile freely" - sorry, what? What bile?

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 21/12/2017 21:59

How so laudanum? 2 to 3 women dies each week killed by men, 85 000 rapes each year, the victims mostly female.

In this country trans people are safe.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 21/12/2017 22:00

No spewing, no bile, just discussion about preserving women's rights.

PricklyBall · 21/12/2017 22:12

Actually, all 85000 are female - there's an additional 12000 male victims (IIRC - it was mentioned in a newspaper article I read today). And the thing to remember is because rape in the UK is defined legally as penetration by a penis, all the perpetrators of those rapes (maybe barring one case a decade under "common purpose") are male.

That's the common thread here - male sexual violence. NAMALT, obviously, but a hell of a lot of them. And that's why we need legislation which doesn't allow any male who fancies it to utter the magic words "I feel like a woman" and gain access to women's spaces. Gatekeeping is good not just for women, but for transwomen as well. After all, what's the point of going to all the trouble of getting your GRC and passing as a woman as best you can and trying to get away from violent men (because violence against trans people is, like all violence, overwhelmingly committed by biologically male individuals) if the violent men can follow you in to the spaces you hoped would be safe?

LangCleg · 21/12/2017 22:45

Gatekeeping is good not just for women, but for transwomen as well.

Absolutely.

Puresummer · 21/12/2017 22:52

@PricklyBall: "Gatekeeping is good not just for women, but for transwomen as well. After all, what's the point of going to all the trouble of getting your GRC and passing as a woman as best you can and trying to get away from violent men (because violence against trans people is, like all violence, overwhelmingly committed by biologically male individuals) if the violent men can follow you in to the spaces you hoped would be safe?"

Complete agreement with this. I think most people would entirely agree actually. The issue comes from the fact that some people around here want to prevent transwomen with GRCs from accessing toilets, and keep mentioning nonsense about exemptions in the Equality Act being strengthened to allow this (when they obviously won't be, however much people seem to think it's already allowed). That moves away from the clearly sensible stance you take (which is one I completely share by the way - self ID is not something I agree with) and moves towards prejudice and discrimination.

Stopping men just declaring themselves to be women in order to access female spaces? Yes, makes sense. Stopping Transwomen with GRCs (or well on their way to getting GRCs) who have had hormonal treatment and are living as their chosen gender and have a diagnosis of GID from a psychiatrist from accessing female toilets? Pure fantasy. There are a few around here who seem to think otherwise though.

Ereshkigal · 22/12/2017 12:20

They are male. Not female. If women's rights were respected this would never have happened. Having a GRC just means that they have engaged with the process. The GRA should never have been passed in this way. It is not physically possible to change sex. It is a lie.

And yes the exemptions in the EA could be strengthened to fully safeguard women's rights to privacy, if there was enough public pressure.

SaucySienna · 23/12/2017 20:05

At the end of the day, I wouldn't feel particularly worried if I saw a transwoman in the women's bathroom with me. But, as a woman, I've faced sexual harassment, so I totally empathise with everyone on this forum concerned about the lack of protection.

Personally, I think there needs to be amendments to properly protect women. Because obviously there are men who might take advantage.

Self ID, for me, isn't the issue - it's the lack of protection of women-only spaces. I think there should be separate men's facilities, women's facilities and general cubicles/whatever (with no labels) which could be used by trans people.

Remember, though, that some transwomen completely pass as women - these women will likely use the women-only spaces, and you won't even realise they're trans. And there's no issue there, is there?

Live and let live is my motto. But I do agree that there needs to be some legal protection.

SaucySienna · 23/12/2017 20:16

I do also think that we, as feminists, need to show ourselves as strong, as opposed to vulnerable. Whilst I completely understand why women are concerned, if we paint ourselves as vulnerable, then we'll be targeted more.

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