Advice from a mental health specialist re women's roles

[doobadodobedoey]

I visit a mental health specialist to help me keep things in check, usually addressing the every day things in life getting me down and finding new ways of perceiving them/planning for things.
Last time I saw her I explained my frustration at the role of women in the home. I'd been ill and found that when I slowed down, so did my DH, rather than taking on the things I couldn't do.
I've recently been to see her again and we discussed solutions, in an email, she confirmed the stance I ought to take. Acceptance.
she said that many women are the driving force of the home and when we slow down, it's natural that everyone else does. Therefore I need to accept this to be at peace with it.
I very much struggle to accept this. Why are women expected to be the driving force of the home when men are capable of filling their shoes when women are too ill to function? I don't get it.
Am I being unreasonable to refuse to accept this when I next meet with her?

but I object to other women allowing themselves to be pigeonholed by spouses and then it becoming a wider issue by default

If I understand this correctly, you're suggesting that a large number of individual women (coincidentally?) make poor choices and end up creating a class problem.

You don't think it's more plausible that an existing class structure puts pressure on individual women top-down?

If I understand this correctly, you're suggesting that a large number of individual women (coincidentally?) make poor choices and end up creating a class problem.

You don't think it's more plausible that an existing class structure puts pressure on individual women top-down?*

No, it's me phrasing that really badly.

I object to other women making the choice to be in that role, cleaner/sahm etc and then being blamed for it being a universal issue if it's their choice to do so.

I've got friends who love being the martyr and wouldn't change it, even if their spouse wanted them to work or contribute less even.

That's what I meant iyswim

Oh, fair enough.

I do agree that there's a tendency for (some) women to be determined to martyr themselves. But I wonder how much this is because little girls are often taught that they're only acceptable as human beings when they're sacrificing themselves, putting others first etc (?) It was certainly the case in my family and I'm still trying to rid myself of the conditioning to some extent, but I don't know how widespread it is.

I have friends who seem to martyr themselves. Will complain at how much they have to do, but seems they wouldn't have it any other way. Won't let husbands shoulder much responsibility but will complain when they have no initiative. I think the advice to direct partners is the worst advice going... so many threads on MN suggest this, particularly in the relationships forum. Writing them lists, stating exactly what should be done etc. It's spoon-feeding and babying grown men to a point they can't think for themselves. I think mothers often do it to their sons too, hence why the wife seems to wait on him. Men need to learn initiative and consequence to make the capable of functioning in the home! I think accepting this as norm is very damaging.

Couldn't agree more op

Men need to learn initiative and consequence to make the capable of functioning in the home! I think accepting this as norm is very damaging.

This with bells on. My own parents had a relationship very much like this, as did my grandparents and for my first long term relationship of 8 years with the kids dad I followed suit, not ever enjoying the martyrdom but feeling that was expected of me.

It was only after I had my daughter that I realised how devastated I would be if she stagnated for that long in a relationship with someone she didn't actually like purely because she felt she had to.

We split up shortly after that awakening after he told me under no uncertain terms how his job, hobbies and social life would always be above mine. Even to this day, years later, he treats me like I have greatly wronged him.

My relationship now is very much on an equal basis, but I do find if I'm anxious (especially this time of year) I settle into doing everything and then getting a bit overwhelmed, telling DP he's not doing "enough" and him giving me a cuddle and saying "because you don't let me" and then being relegated to a bath or the sofa every night for a week or two whilst the carpets are hoovered to death.

I ALLOW that though, and I'll be the first to admit it. I allow myself to drop into the role and then get really frustrated with myself because I'm swamped and aware that I've probably told DP not to do the laundry because I'm "about to do it" or I've rebuffed his offer to do dinner because "I've already started".

Mean definitely need to be less intimidated by taking the reins of the household but also to not see it as something deserved of a medal, because as I used to tell my ex on paternity leave "you didn't wash up for ME, you did it because you HAVE to".

Counsellors tend to focus on things their patients / clients can control and in many cases you can’t control other people just your response to them.
I don’t know but this might get be a good approach many to MH issues but it’s not a great approach to feminism or other activism.
But maybe activism is incompatible with shakey mental health.

For example if a friend of mine was bullied at work and falling apart and suffering terribly I’d advise self preservation and getting the hell out.
However the “right” this is to whistle blow and expose and fight the bullies. But not at the expense of your own sanity and family and health.

Same with feminism I think. Each of us needs to decide what to fight and what to accept. Draw our own lines. Accepting everything is not healthy but fighting everything all the time would be exhausting too

But maybe activism is incompatible with shakey mental health.

I apologise less for my anxiety in a relationship where we are both heads of the household and I seem more proactive about healing or taking time before I burn out than I did in previous relationships where I fulfilled the 'female role'.

And come to think of it Doctors never addressed how much I was doing, or my isolation as a new parent, it was all focus on getting out of the house to the different toddler clubs OR establishing a routine, not ever did one doctor question that maybe having to do everything in the house, with the boy and coping with pnd alone may not be my lack of "getting out of the house" but more that my child's father was the one completely failing HIS role.

I'm pretty annoyed about this now.

She responded that running away when you have 2 DCs is not an option and that I needed to learn to cope even when ill.

For a lot of women, that's true. However it's also the same for a lot of men.

I do think more and more that the whole concept of pnd as it currently stands is a massive white-wash. Society colludes to shaft new mums and then the inevitable impact on them is all blamed on hormones.

(Not that I don't think hormones are important but I think they're carrying the can for a lot of other stuff as well.)

I think a lot of women would rather blame their feelings on PND than act on how their partners are contributing.

One of my best friends is in what I think is a borderline abusive relationship and I certainly think 99% of her feeling are because her arsehole husband seems to go out of his way to make her feel like shit whilst simultaneously claiming a victim stance because she's not the woman he fell in love with.

I know she knows it's not PND, but it's easier to get meds from the doctor than tell her husband to leave.

Have you read the book WifeWork by Susan Maushart?

I'm a counsellor and I understand this in context of "I cannot control others " I can only be responsible for me. Acceptance could mean letting go of what you cannot control. Still unfair but will take stress away.

I'd leave any therapist or counselor who tried to tell me what I "needed" to do. It's bad therapy and give me the rage.

I cannot control others " I can only be responsible for me. Acceptance could mean letting go of what you cannot control

True, but OP has a lot more choices (without controlling others) than just acceptance, and was given no opportunity to explore these.

• e.g., you can't insist someone does their own laundry, but you can refuse to do it for them

• e.g., you can't insist someone treats you with respect, but you can decline to continue living with someone who doesn't.

And so forth.

Most importantly, acceptance is only acceptance when the individual chooses it. If you choose acceptance for someone else, that's the same as saying 'suck it up'

Acceptance in this instance could be defined as George Bernard Shaw's description of being 'reasonable':

'A reasonable man adapts himself to fit the world. An unreasonable man adapts the world to fit himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.'

Change the genders in that little quote and you get some idea how, in a brutally sexist world, women have to be 'unreasonable' just to survive, never mind progress. Acceptance in this context is the female equivalent of Winston Smith loving Big Brother, with citalopram instead of booze.

Thanks Galiico! 😂 made me chuckle!

I have worked in mental health for many years. I don't know what discipline she is but if a doctor, nurse, psychologist or social worker said that I would be seriously concerned and it could be grounds for a formal complaint.

Person centred care 101. You don't tell a patient how things should be in their lives. They tell you how they think it it should be and how it actually is and you work together to address the difference. It would be impossible to work with people of different cultures and religions otherwise.

Sorry that happened to you OP

I have since explained to the MH professional that I am going to struggle to "accept" that as a woman this automatically means that I need to be the constant driving force in the home in writing via email.
The response I got said that she was referring to differing personalities in the home as opposed to gender... however I think she is backtracking. To quote her original email:
" I think you have to accept that like many women you are the driving force in your household and when you slow down, so does everyone else."
I mean have I read this wrong? She appears to be referring to gender stereotypes to me and not personality at all?

Ask her what professional body she is registered with. And send the emails to them.

I presume you don't work in the NHS fatty
Where one is encouraged to rely on abusive men, and the woman wanting to leave is seen as pathological...

Babs

Yes I do work in the NHS. And I don't know if you are a professional or a service user but that is completely unacceptable.

I've never come across that in my life and if I was a service user I would contact the service director via pals and ask for a formal investigation. If I was a professional than this would be a safeguarding alert on the grounds of institutional abuse and negligence or a whistle blowing.

I read this article today which made me hunk go this thread. Lots of food for thought: www.feministcurrent.com/2017/12/21/making-political-personal-psychology-undermines-feminist-activism/

Love threads like this, OP. It bucks me right up to see other women repeating my exact feelings. It's so mind exhausting, isn't it? I suppose my dh does more than most because I've been ill and disabled for a number of years. But, I can't get rid of this feeling that I run the household from my armchair. I've tried everything including (as a pp said) asking dh what he can see that needs doing? Some strategies do work for a while, then he slides back again. I don't want to split from him (married 28 years) because I do really love him. I have a new plan for the new year. DD has recently flown the nest, (the last of our dc to go). I'm thinking of using her room for myself, giving reasons that dh keeps me awake with his sleep apnea machine (blows cold air), I keep him awake with my insomnia, etc. I think I can manage to keep the one room clean and tidy by myself, then when going downstairs try to ignore all the dust and jobs that need doing. When it does start to grate on me, I can then retreat to my own clean and tidy room (for a rest) Bliss! Good idea, eh? Sad, but absolutely necessary for my sanity. I'm going to have to be brave to even broach the subject of separate rooms because dh feelings will be hurt, so wish me luck

Oops sorry OP, YANBU to refuse to accept your therapist's advice.