When is threatening suicide abuse and when is it not?

[RedToothBrush]

Just pondering this.

The majority of articles on the subject relate to domestic abuse. This also means there is a particular group of people who promote this and a particular group of people most at risk of this type of abuse.

There is also a particular type of person who is more likely to inflict this type of abuse and restrict others from knowing this is abuse.

How can you tell when someone says they are suicidal that it is a cry for help or attention seeking? How can you tell when someone is at risk and when someone is being manipulated?

How can you tell when someone is in need of support or is being controlling?

When do you believe and when do you treat with a degree of skepticism for your own protection?

I think this is something that needs a little attention in its own right.

Is there a particular pattern or signs or clue to how to tell the difference?

That post is massively out of order. You don't get to tell others whether they were emotionally abused or not. You don't know what you are talking about, whatever your own situation. Reported.

broken you have clearly misunderstood the thread. Which coupled with your aggression suggests to. Me tnst you should think before you post. And possibly get some help with your issues..

And broken if youre talking about my DP who jumped he did indeed die from massive head trauma.

Threatening suicide is often used to manipulate people to stay in unhealthy relationships. We are continuously told that children will kill themselves we do not give into their demands. This is because adult trans want trans kids, it gives them legitimacy. Good news is that trans individuals rarely kill themselves, they rarely get murdered either so that's cool huh?

Broken - you are wrong and I hope you never experience this form of abuse.

How has this turned into a trans thread?

This is because adult trans want trans kids, it gives them legitimacy. Good news is that trans individuals rarely kill themselves, they rarely get murdered either so that's cool huh?

What havectrans issues got to do with the OK

*OP

because suicide is used as part of the trans script. It is also used by abusive men to keep women in relationships.

It's manipulative in the same way it's manipulative in an abusive relationships.

How has this turned into a trans thread?

This.

Try reading it?

If you read the ops posts then you can see that they have also mentioned trans issues as part of a wider discussion. As she started the thread it seemed appropriate what with it being her thread and all.

Constant scaremongering about suicide is deeply irresponsible behaviour and highly manipulative as it's used as a tool to control other's behaviour and speech.

We are continuously told that children will kill themselves we do not give into their demands. This is because adult trans want trans kids, it gives them legitimacy. Good news is that trans individuals rarely kill themselves, they rarely get murdered either so that's cool huh?

I've just realised that you're 'Damn' and not 'Dame' ...

TBH what terrifies me about the whole suicide thing in trans land is that I have a niggling suspicion that;

i. ideas about suicide are actually being planted in young people by older TRAs because they want to make a statistical / political point.
ii. there is social contagion going on here between younger trans people where being suicidal (or saying one is) gives one a special status.
iii. many younger trans people either say they are suicidal or come to believe they are because they talk the talk to the point that they walk the walk.
iv. many younger trans people think they have to say/be suicidal in order to be taken seriously as trans.
v. Actually going through positive affirming therapy and taking blockers etc. increases suicidal ideation.
vi. the stats are skewed by all of the above.

Caveat - there are other issues too such as comorbidity and a higher rate of suicidal ideation amongst LGB groups generally than the 'normal' population, but in my experience of watching some younger trans people I do wonder about a lot of the above.

But”if you do/don’t do x then I’ll kill myself” is definitely abusive and controlling.

Yes. I unfortunately have personal experience of this in a relationship. I fell for it each time too as I always thought 'what if he is serious'. I eventually told my mum about it all who said to me that if he ever by some tiny chance was serious, it still would not be my fault. This kind of snapped me out of it a bit and I started seeing his threats for what they were...bullshit.

I believe most genuinely suicidal people don't go around announcing it!

This too.

I think also sometimes, even when people are using it in an abusive way they can follow through with it. This is terrible for me to admit but this is how I know this. When I was 14, I was a tearaway. One night my mother got sick and locked me out of the house. I text her telling me if she did not let me in the house, I was slitting my wrists. She ignored me at first, and then sent back saying the answer was still the same. So I slit my wrists in the backyard and ended up in hospital that night. I did not do it to die. I did it to 'teach my mother a lesson' about how she could not be doing things like that to me. It was definitely an abusive controlling thing rather than anything else.

I may need to namechange again now for admitting that, as it is absolutely disgusting and I am still so ashamed of myself 16 years on.

Yes. I think abusive people are not in a mentally healthy place, deeply insecure that they need to control and hurt their partner and yes, sometimes unfortunately they will follow through with it. That doesn't make it the abuse victim's fault.

Marrow

@RandomMess

I believe most genuinely suicidal people don't go around announcing it!

Having lived with a mother who attempted suicide a "few" times, agree. She took copious amounts of meds and had the planning to hide all the strips, all the boxes; and the pre-planning to stockpile large amounts.

That doesn't make it the abuse victim's fault.

Of course it doesn't. It would never have been my mothers fault if i did actually die that night. It would have been mine, for being such a manipulative cunt. In my head though, I also thought if it did happen, she would feel guilty forever so I would still have 'won'. I was such a horrible horrible child. Very manipulative. Pretty much everytime I see my parents I apologize for how I was as a teen. I effectively 'grew out of it' by about 18 and thinking back it still devastates me now. I also used to 'self harm' to control my father, and it worked with him 'Self harm' was just superficial stuff like cutting myself with a pencil sharpener blade. Whenever he told me off for something, I would show him the cuts and tell him it was his fault for being so horrible.

So basically, I have experience of both sides of this. Of being both the abuser, and the abused.

I have been on both the self-harming end, the cry-for-help-end (possibly manipulative in retrospect) and the genuine attempts at suicide.
As an observer, it would be very difficult to tell where I was. I didn't know myself, usually until after the fact i.e., had I immediately sought help, had I warned anyone beforehand, had I sought no help and just survived.
Speaking from personal experience here.
It's a difficult one and not one I usually would take a gamble with when dealing with someone expressing suicidal thoughts. That said, I have never had someone use it as a threat against me, nor have I used it as a threat against someone else either (I hope).
Not an easy question to answer, but a fair question to ask.

Actually, I lie (somewhat). Once, when in a psychiatric hospital, this witch of a nurse wouldn't let me outside for a cigarette or something so I said 'YOU'RE MAKING ME SUICIDAL'. She then rather nicely replied 'DON'T YOU DARE THREATEN ME WITH SUICIDE - GO AND KILL YOURSELF SO'.

Not sure if that counts. But it did happen.

Marrow you were a child

On a happy note, both myself and the nurse are still alive and kicking.

Oh marrow you were only 14. You have absolutely no reason to feel guilt at all. You should have been receiving help. There is a world of difference between your experience and the sort of manipulative bullshit displayed by adults.
Please try to feel better about that poor hurting child you are carrying about inside. Some person centred nurturing therapy might help. Sorry if I have spoken out of turn