Receptionist in 'unprofessional' clothes. Am conflicted

[bagelbaby]

Love to hear your opinions as I'm conflicted.
Just dropped my car off for a service(decent car dealership- think free coffee, papers etc).
Was greeted by a young woman wearing heels so high she could hardly walk, a short extremely tight shirt and a shirt so tight it gaped showing her underwear.
It was all in black, so some thought about professional wear at work.
But it didn't feel right to me. I don't want to body shame. She has the right to wear what she wants.
But it just felt 'off'
I first hoped that the male dominated environment hadn't told her to wear it and then again I hoped she didn't feel that it was exactly what she should wear at work and had no choice.
I call myself a feminist and am finding myself conflicted.
I found myself looking at the heels and then spotting the bra. I thought 'Jeez if I'm doing this, then I guess this young woman is getting similar and worse all day from men?'
Love to hear your views

you do you

I thought it was some sort of South Walian colloquialism. Or a typo.

Yes! I tried it in Welsh tone too..

lass you are being controlling and judgemental - telling other off other women for their feelings.

Some of the feelings make me feel uncomfortable. I mentioned I found parts of the OP's post a bit creepy and my feeling is that it is not a million miles away from "urgh cover yourself up".

I don't think short skirts and tight, see through tops are 'professional' just because they're in black suiting material.

More like they are sold to us as a caricature of professional work wear. It's insidious. It's the 'you must look pretty and sexually available at all times'. Even when you're working or wearing a nursing bra (have you seen the extra sexy lace and strappy bits added to nursing bras?) your clothing is designed to go further than flatter or fit your female form.

It's a fine line but I think it's crossed a lot when clothes are designed. I used to work somewhere that had 'female' overalls - they had darts and shaping through the chest and waist. It looked ok until someone with larger breasts wore it - then the shaping ended in a 50's point at the breasts making it look like the wearer had a conical bra on. Most women who had larger breasts then chose to wear the men's overalls.

It's easy to say clothes are 'badly designed' but when so many clothes are seemingly designed with extra provocativeness added you have to question surely?

I only fall into the theoretical 'women can wear what they like' category because I DESIRE this to be true.

In real life and not the reality I wanted I pointed out to dd what fucking arseholes men were and if she wore certain outfits (at the time she was gothy and wore a lot of basques) then she would get whistled at and sleazy comments made. She obviously hated men beeping their horns and making disgusting comments.

I don't like the receptionist wearing clothes like that because it makes MY life hard. I feel uncomfortable, I judge the work place she works for, I worry that she is not totally doing it because of free will (because patriarchy is insidious). They remind me of every dodgy male fantasy office porn film . And I hate porn.

Do we really think women are wearing these clothes because they like them? Or can we not accept that they are influenced by the patriarchy, society around them, media influences ?

I don't think any woman given a six week introductory course to feminism is going to totter in to the lecture theatre in six inch heels and a peep hole bra by the end.

I'm going to get flamed for this but I NEVER see sexually explicit clothing worn by women
I see as actualised, centred, comfortable in their skin. Well, maybe the odd famous person or model who can afford a body guard to protect her

Not overly revealing or sexy. Same for everyone.

That very much depends on your definition of "Sexy" - Bums, Legs, Boobs, Calves, Wrists..........

Also, it depends what shape people are.

I'm sure you'd be in uproar if the dress code was "ankle length skirts that must not be tight fitting"....

LaurieFairyCake
I don't think short skirts and tight, see through tops are 'professional' just because they're in black suiting material.
More like they are sold to us as a caricature of professional work wear. It's insidious. It's the 'you must look pretty and sexually available at all times'.

Absolutely this. If you were in an office or at a funeral and a couple were heavy petting, you wouldn't be comfortable with it. You'd see it was not appropriate. You havent consented to participate.

Thats not 'slut shaming' or being 'anti sex'. Porn and advertising have really done a number on women.

I need an opportunity today to say, you do you

Difficult one. I had a young graduate a few years back who used to dress like this and it made a lot of people in the office - both male and female - quite uncomfortable. Eventually I told her - but I didn't tell her what to wear - I just said how you portray yourself at work makes a difference to how you are perceived, and as she was ambitious and clever it might be an idea to think of who her female role models would be (we had a lot of senior women directors) and consider how they portrayed themselves at work. She clearly got the message and subtly changed her look. FWIW I don't think she had even thought about it until that day.

I don't really notice what other people wear, partly because I'm very self absorbed 😂but if I did notice in this situation I'd just assumed she liked those clothes and she must think she looks good.

Well user, there are perhaps more useful things to be done but hey, you do you!

(Gets in first!)

I'll do me too - my habit is to annoy my eldest with (slightly ill-fitting to his mind) slang picked up from the internet. He's still intolerant enough of the "aged" to wind up nicely.

I think it's correct to say that, whilst this lady presumably wears what she wears because she likes it and thinks it looks good, she has also been influenced by the media, social pressures etc to think that this looks good in the first place, ie it's not a free choice.

However, this is better tackled systemically rather than judging the poor girl for what she chooses to wear. She is a symptom, not the cause.

But you could probably say that about anyone who wears anything ever.

What do you think is acceptable to wear???

I'm not disagreeing with you but I don't believe anything is a free choice.

No I think you're right frank, the things we like, watch, listen to and wear are all influenced, hence why advertising budgets are huge.

I think it's acceptable to wear anything you want. I don't mind anything between burkha and bikini. It's not for me to judge - wear what you like.

I have a female friend who gets really turned on by seediness and fetshiseses the whole pervy bloke thing. She liked the thought of men being cheared by looking at page 3 of the Sun, she likes porn mags, leery comments, etc. I could easily imagine her deliberately dressing in revealing clothes if working at a garage or visiting a men's prison. She has indulged in a lots of risky sexual behaviour in the past such as pretending to be a prostitute to pick up men.

I find it hard to say 'you do you' to her - completely sincerely, because by provoking and enjoying male behaviours most women find threatening, she is encouraging it (even though she is usually the one in control of it) which is a bit unsisterly really - but she is mainly friends with gay men, so she doesn't get it.

And by unsisterly - I think the female prison guards would have a job on their hands on a day to day level - just maintaining a level of respect. Those social worker visits (described upthread) could have an aftermath that those female prison guards have to deal with again. So for a pervy thrill this one woman makes other women's jobs at work more difficult.

Many moons ago I used to work in this environment and had to visit car dealers and garages. It is the very last bastion of chauvinism sadly. Many of them still have porno shots up in the workshop.

My assumption would be this woman was hired for her looks and how she dressed. I would also assume it was an independent and not a chain.

As much as I respect her right to dress as she pleases, I also fundamentally have an issue with her perpetuating rhe myth of women in the workplace are important primarily due to our decorative abilities, how we look and dress Being more important that our ability to do the job.

I think we all know what "appropriate" professional outfits are.

I understand the internal conflict. I support any woman's right to dress in whatever way they are comfortable. Doesn't sound like she was comfortable, though (too tight clothing that you are constantly having to adjust, nobody is comfortable in that).

But agree with the comment of "depends on your definition of sexy". If I was a man, I'd not find the outfit described in the OP as sexy at all.

Maybe she's fucking awesome at her job, and happens to wear short skirts too?

why are you presuming she can't do her job?

I thought the meaning was - it is irrelevant if a woman is awesome at her job or not - if her looks and decorative potential are actually considered her key attributes by her employer...

I think we all know what "appropriate" professional outfits are

I know that what I think is an appropriate professional outfit is, is different to what my mother thought one was, and her mother had another view entirely....

A 20 year old will have a different view to a 40 year old - I see a clear difference between the dress styles of interns and (older) senior managers in my office....

Do you think in a society or environment with no male influences, no males to please or titialate, no pressure to look good for men, etc. with 100% free choice what to wear, women would always wear (dare I say it) modest clothing?

I had an adviser and her (older male) colleague come to a meeting with me dressed in what can only be described as a provocative way. I found it extremely unprofessional and others in the meeting, were clearly finding the underwear on display very embarrassing.

Months afterwards I had a meeting with other senior adviser in the same team and they had the task of telling me that they were having to change the team given the "relationship" between senior and junior member of staff

No, because sometimes it might be more comfortable to wear something that exposes more skin. Or someone might prefer the feeling of tight stretchy clothes over loose ones. Or they might be bisexual or a lesbian and be looking to attract a partner.

Do you think in a society or environment with no male influences, no males to please or titialate, no pressure to look good for men, etc. with 100% free choice what to wear, women would always wear (dare I say it) modest clothing?

Wouldn't we all be lesbians and dress to attract each other instead?

Do you think in a society or environment with no male influences, no males to please or titialate, no pressure to look good for men, etc. with 100% free choice what to wear, women would always wear (dare I say it) modest clothing?

Going by Nuns I Have Known, yes and no.
Nuns wear shorts, short sleeves, and don't cover their hair, if they are in an order where dress is not prescribed. Younger nuns dress less modestly than older nuns.
The 30-something primary school teacher nun I used to know wore more or less the same as the other primary school teachers (practical skirt i.e. wide with opaque tights in winter, or practical trousers i.e. flexible, long or short sleeved top depending on the weather).

The 60- and 70-something retired teacher/nurse/admin professional/academic nuns wore more or less the same as other older, middle-class retired professional single women - again trousers that were comfortable but not overly loose or tight, long or short sleeved tops.

None of them made a big thing of covering their bottoms (this is a cultural thing as many "non-modest" groups in some countries regard this as important too - e.g. Christians in a majority Muslim area I used to live in would not usually tuck in their blouses and would go for longer tops) or their hair, nor of wearing loose clothes, which seem to be the hallmarks of "modest" clothing.

But apart from longer shorts in very hot weather, and normal (not burkini or long) swim suits (this was before tankinis/swim shorts were very common), most of them would not wear very short, tight, or revealing clothes (no low cut tops, but not wearing them right up to their chins either).