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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Transgender guidance for schools

79 replies

QuarksandLeptons · 30/11/2017 20:06

NHS Forth Valley have a document called ‘Supporting Transgender & Gender Variant Children & Young People - Guidance for Schools’

It’s a contradictory document, poorly written with whole sections that disagree with various pints. For example it talks about wanting to prevent sex stereotypes and how restrictive they are but then goes on to praise how brave it is to be trans, when it’s the most sexist thing in the works to say that someone who likes things traditionally associated with one sex is in fact born in the wrong body.

It’s all awful but has some particularly worrying sections, in particular a part on dealing with young children with learning disabilities, basically saying to guide them that only certain behaviour is appropriate for each of the sexes. I’ve attached the section.

It also says teachers should not tell anyone if a pupil says they are transitioning- including their parents or other staff members.

It has jolly part about girls binding their breasts, written as though this is something totally reasonable and healthy to do.

The whole thing is misinformed & doesn't reflect current science on the fact and boys and girls do not have pink and blue brains and therefore are born in the wrong body.
It wilfully leaves at risk children (autistic, sexually abused or depressed) without any support as it simply says accept any child who says they are trans and not to involve their loved ones or even any one else in the school who could help.
There’s evidence that often traumatised children use transitioning as a way to dissociate from themselves. This would no longer be picked up on.

This should not be anywhere near schools. I cannot believe the NHS is endorsing this anti-science trans propaganda that seeks to turn gender non conforming kids into permanent medical patients. And will also leave really vulnerable young people with no proper support.

Sorry that this is not edited and a bit ranty, I wanted to share it as I’m so horrified. Putting my baby to sleep so got to write fast and furiously in case he wakes!

NHS Transgender guidance for schools
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Thelilywhite · 02/12/2017 10:06

/www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/files/documents/Supporting_Transgender_Young_People_-_Digital_version.pdf

Thelilywhite · 02/12/2017 10:12

Oops sorry link fail, I searched for transgender guidelines for school in the search bar at the top of this page and the thread came up, Sorry don't know how to link to it, Had been meaning to do something when I saw original thread about the scot gv guidlines but this latest farce has spurred me on to action.

20nil · 02/12/2017 10:16

The best thing to do if confronted by this is to take it to school governors. They will, or should, read this ‘guidance’ really carefully because if anything goes wrong, they are on the hook. Many of them have been through safe guarding courses too so will be able to spot the problems raised in this document. I’m a SG myself and I can tell you that this would provoke a pretty robust discussion!

Battleax · 02/12/2017 10:22

"blatant boy/girl activities"?!

So many things wrong with this.

MrsKCastle · 02/12/2017 10:23

There's a lot to be concerned about in this guidance. There's a line that says something like 'it's important for a young person's emotional and psychological wellbeing that they should be allowed to bind if they want to'. It makes no mention at all of their physical wellbeing.

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime · 02/12/2017 10:35

That is outrageous.
I struggle to understand how that is official guideline.
How many people has that had to get through to be signed off?

Datun · 02/12/2017 10:39

.

Datun · 02/12/2017 10:41

This has sparked outrage on AIBU

Parents of children with SEN who are horrified.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3101028-To-think-this-breath-takingly-ill-thought-out-regressive-sexist-nonsense-and-is-a-real-danger-to-children-with-special-needs

How the fuck these guidelines are related to the statistical 37 children per year who have gender dysphoria, God only knows.

annandale · 02/12/2017 10:50

I'm angry too [ but have to also pull a few hairs out for the shit writing. I don't think they meant 'conversely'. I don't think they meant 'blatant'. It's just vague collections of words that sound a bit like what they mean. No wonder the confusion between sex and gender never gets addressed. I don't think this author really understands that words can relate to real life.]

If female singers wanted to bind they could end up with dysphoria, maybe nodules on their vocal cords. But hey, no worries, singing is probably considered a 'blatant girl' activity so a girl 'questioning' their 'assigned gender' should probably stop all their singing PDQ.

annandale · 02/12/2017 10:52

Not dysphoria, dysphonia. Maybe the document was written on a phone.

Thelilywhite · 02/12/2017 11:17

Thanks for drawing attention to that thread Datun I don't usually venture into aibu.

Datun · 02/12/2017 11:28

Thelilywhite

Thanks for drawing attention to that thread Datun I don't usually venture into aibu.

Me neither. But I have found myself checking in every and then, because this issue is spilling over onto that board.

The high traffic there makes the temperature check much more accurate.

It’s reassuring that there has been a significant shift towards criticism of the ideology.

Largely because of shit like these guidelines where people are incredulous that we have found ourselves in this La La Land of nonsense so quickly.

Thelilywhite · 02/12/2017 11:34

Yes it is reassuring. I hope some people will write.

QuarksandLeptons · 02/12/2017 14:23

Thanks Lilywhite I’ll start with the Dfe. Any chance I could have a look at your letter for inspiration?

Thanks Datun good that it’s becoming known about in a more mainstream way. Will pop my head over there now....

20nil I might DM you in the week if that’s ok? . I’m planning on becoming a school governor once my oldest starts school. Wondered whether there’s a gender critical group of school governors in England / UK. If not, it would be a good thing to start, so that we could implement linked up policies to safeguard schools against pressure groups misleading them

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KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 02/12/2017 14:32

As a parent of a child with asd I am utterly outraged by this. My son has been in a programme to assist his development which uses the only approach with any evidential basis and is the best available. At no stage has it involved teaching him gender appropriate activities. This is unscientific dangerous horseshit and whoever wrote it should be shot.

Thelilywhite · 02/12/2017 14:51

quarks of course you can! I'm just in the middle of doing it now whilst at the same time applying for a job in an asd wing of a primary school! If I get interviewed I think I will find it very tough in the 'Do you have any questions ' bit not to ask if they are using the guide...

norahnamechange · 02/12/2017 16:13

To anyone writing, this is a document produced in Scotland.I think therefore that complaints should go here:
www.gov.scot/Topics/Education

Thelilywhite · 02/12/2017 16:18

norahnamechange
Thanks I was in a dilemma about that. Not very good at finding things on line

Elendon · 02/12/2017 17:30

You NEVER tell adults in schools to promise confidentiality.

This is an essential component of safeguarding.

Good post Norahnamechange

norahnamechange · 02/12/2017 18:10

Elendon
I am horrified at the complete undermining of the most basic safeguarding principles in all of these guidelines being presented to schools.
Stating that adults in schools should maintain confidentiality for a disclosure, a blatant disregard for 'age appropriate' issues - which is a benchmark of protecting younger children. Add to that, positioning parents as a potential 'threat' to their child's wellbeing, stating that they should not necessarily be informed about their child's gender non conformity as well as a complete disregard for issues about age of consent.
Our safeguarding procedures have been developed following the deaths of countless children - they weren't dreamt up in isolation.
But for some reason, these groups have been given a 'pass' to change basic safeguarding rules for gender non conforming children and nobody seems to have noticed, or cared.

AdultHumanFemale · 03/12/2017 08:13

Marking space here. As a teacher I have been worrying about what guidance on transgender pupils might eventually come to look like, and how it could impact pupils and teachers. This is worse than I could have imagined. Will show a couple of colleagues who I know share my concerns. Like you say, Quarks , a group for GC SGs would be good as it strikes me that we need to see this coming, be prepared and not allow ourselves to be caught off guard. My worry is that if you are not reading this through a GC lens, but rather as a young, 'right on and progressive' professional yes, Miss W, I am looking at you , who is already on board with the 'transwomen are women' ideology, this might all sound quite reasonable, as 'centering' the gender variant child. My FtM nephew would give this his seal of approval, having totally bought into the notion of parents as enemies, despite being part of a group of trans AFABs in their town social contagion, anyone? whose parents have, collectively, never been anything but loving and supportive, through social transition, gender clinics and as they are all reaching the right age, hormone treatment.

WTAFisthisshit · 03/12/2017 08:37

Ffs just wrote out a long message and deleted it!

AdultHumanFemale I am glad that there are teachers who share my concerns.

I had a look round Instagram last night in preparation for writing to my MP next week. I have enclosed a couple of shots of the sort of garbage I found. My interpretation is that kids who previously were on pro ana and cutting sites are now #trans and it appears to be contagious. Instagram now flashes up warnings for #cutting hashtags but nothing for #FtM or #chestbinding and there are literally millions of these.

I cannot believe that as a society we have learnt nothing from professionals throwing girls under a bus so as not to be perceived racist, now we're going to throw millions under a bus so as not to be perceived transphobic.

Not caring about woman is one thing, but a society that doesn't care about its children like this is really broken.

Sorry for the rant, I will be trying to channel that anger into a coherent letter/email to my MP.

NHS Transgender guidance for schools
NHS Transgender guidance for schools
Amethyst975 · 03/12/2017 08:48

Yes, I’m trying to formulate an email to my MP that’s as coherent and non-ranty as possible. Difficult. Sad

QuarksandLeptons · 03/12/2017 09:20

Thanks LilyWhite and good luck with your interview!

adultHumanFemale Do you know other teachers with the same thoughts, is this being discussed informally among yourselves?

My social group wouldn’t really be aware that this is going on and that it’s a threat. Quite a few people I’m friends with are doctor’s and they are blissfully unaware.

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QuarksandLeptons · 03/12/2017 09:24

WTAF & Amethyst So good that you are both writing to your MPs. I need to chase mine. No response at all to my letter from September

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