CPR

[Jamiek80]

Interested in opinions it seems women are less likely to be given CPR as men fear accusations of sexual assault. I'm a little skeptical as it was in the Mail but I remember from my first aid training about warnings of law suits. I'm sure this won't go well but will the current climate of sexual harassment have a negative effect long term?

I’m not saying it’s common. I’m saying it’s a possibility. I’m no expert but it has been suggested in a large scale study. It may not be as simple as deciding to let a woman die. E.g., they see a person collapsed and rationalise that she is probably ok anyway, cpr unlikely to work (NOT always the case), someone else will step in (pluralistic ignorance), concerns about doing the wrong thing and causing injury, maybe balance is swung further if she is a woman with the added thought that they might be accused of something.

To reiterate, there have been no successful prosecutions and acting as a Good Samaritan would be supported in law.

I imagine that it is similar to lone men not wanting to be the ones to approach children who seem to be lost. I remember a conversation with my dad shortly after Jamie Bulger's abduction and murder, where he said that he would now think twice (and look to see if there was someone else around to offer help instead) if he saw a lost child, to avoid being implicated in any subsequent investigation, for example if he were caught on video camera with the child

I don't know what the sad face is for Olenna (forgive my impatience, but this really gets my goat). I refuse to feel sorry for men who only care about the fact that they are affected by the general distrust in men, distrust that is totally warranted. If men are really sad about this, why aren't they doing anything to change it???

YY Olenna

Seriously Rainbow, in a world where two women a week are murdered by men, and 85,000 women a year are raped by men, the thing you're worried about is a man maybe feeling a bit sad in the unlikely event that they have to perform CPR on a woman/help a lost child? If a man is really concerned re the child all he has to do is keep his distance and call the police. How hard is that??

I am capable of worrying about more than one thing at a time. Given that the OP was about men doing CPR then I have responded to that.

Yup, I second what other PP have said.

Men care more about their own reputations than women's lives. Which means as human beings we are worthless to them. What else is new?

Yes but I don't see the point in saying how sad it is when there are very obvious reasons why it happens and men don't do one thing about it. I get that you can worry about two things at the same time but IMO it's a waste of energy to worry about something so insignificant, especially when it's all about men feeling sad about the fact that so many of them kill and rape women and on the basis of that they'd rather let a woman die. I mean it's fucked up.

LeCroissant - because I do think it's sad that somehow we are in a place in time where good men worry about being seen as bad men if they do something with the best of intentions. And whilst it might be a theoretical risk, anything that stops people stepping forward (particularly in a medical emergency, where time may be really critical) is problematic.

I agree Olenna, but this is an issue created by men (as a group) and impacting on women and children (as usual). So where are the men trying to sort this out? All they seem to be concerned about is their own feelings and reputation, as usual, while it's women here discussing it and feeling sad about it. I'm tired of it.

Thinking back to the facilitation thread - this is essentially the case of women taking on the burden of something men should be dealing with. We are at the shitty end of this problem - we are the ones assaulted and the ones left to die. We have no reason to feel sorry for men. They should get off their arses and sort this out, if it's such a problem!

Good men are fearless on behalf of others, just as good women are. Good men learn first aid and use it.

Men who are more concerned about an imaginary scenario over violence that happens every day to others are not good men. They are socially adept. They adopt the appearance of goodness to benefit themselves. Its an act, and the facade crumbles as soon as things get real.

Well said DJ. What I find really awful about this is the sort of implied threat - 'well you're always saying we assault you so we're going to let you die, so there!'

Aren't men ashamed of themselves?

I'm not sure I entirely agree. Good people can also be selfish. And good people can be concerned about what might happen to them as well as outraged at male violence.

The first rule of emergency aid is help the other person only if it is safe for you to do so. Put your oxygen mask on first before helping the child beside you. Don't jump into the water to save someone from drowning if you aren't a great swimmer yourself. If the fire service have ordered everyone back from the burning building, don't try and just run in to grab something because you know where it is and you are a fast runner

Making sure you're not going to burn to death or drown is not the same as worrying about someone maybe thinking something bad about you.

we are in a place in time where good men worry about being seen as bad men if they do something with the best of intentions.

I don't think it is the worry that they will be seen as bad men necessarily. I think it has more to do with the fact that men are socially conditioned to not touch women. In order to administer CPR they have to fight the inner voice that is telling them that what they are doing is wrong.

LeCroissant and Bumbledumb - I think what you are both saying is that it is (ironically) the "good men" who would hesitate. Because they are the ones who are socially conditioned not to touch women, and they are the ones who would care very much about allegations of improper conduct being made against them.

Entitled misogynists might decide not to assist a woman because they are pigs, but not because they have qualms about making physical contact with a woman

Either way, who cares? The end result is a woman or child not helped.

I did actually know a man, many years ago, who was arrested in Germany, for having his hand up a womans skirt while trying to stop her bleeding to death after an accident, he'd got his fist in a hole in her groin, he was a battlefield medic. He wasnt charged, thankfully.

I do not believe for one sesond that a "good" man would stand by and not apply CPR to a woman who needed it, for fear of being accused of sexual harassing her.

No way at all a "good man" would stand by and think to himself "oh I had better not try and assist or save her life as someone might think I am grabbing her breast" - it's bullshit and I do not believe for a minute it actually happens. Arseholes might do this, people who really do have something to worry about (questionable behaviour & beliefs about women) might do this, but "good men"? No they don't do this.

Sorry but anyone who would think 'oh, I may be accused of sexual assault' in a situation like this is an utter cock. Similar to the idiots who upon being oh so shocked about the likes of Weinstein start worrying that a woman they said hello to 20 years ago might suddenly accuse them of sexual assault and try to get them fired

So a good man doesn't think twice and gives CPR to a lady who subsequently accusing him of assault, there have been cases. From then on he is no longer a good man, no smoke without fire, just because he wasn't charged etc. Is someone hesitating due to fear the same as someone who doesn't believe a fact that's been known about for years?

Have there been cases?

What does "I s someone hesitating due to fear the same as someone who doesn't believe a fact that's been known about for years?" mean?

I found a few on google without any issue and at least 1 claimed on this thread. I was referring to previous poster who claimed anyone who had doubts about CPR was the same as someone shocked by sexual assault events in Hollywood

I could only find one instance, after a brief search, of a man who was briefly questioned by the police in Japan after a misunderstanding around using a defibrillator, rather than CPR. He was credited with using it correctly and saving the woman's life, and obviously not questioned any further. Perhaps you could link to the several cases that you found?