Women actors

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I'm trying to get this thought straight in my head so bear with me.

Hollywood and acting particularly is full of very young, very pretty female actors. Male actors can be older, ugly, fat, weird looking. But women all need to be beautiful and fragrant.

We are sold this as what the market wants. But after Weinstein, it has occurred to me that it seems more likely that good female actors are passed up because male directors and casting staff only want to sexually harass and assault beautiful young women.

Is the casting couch the reason we don't see character actors who are female in the same light as male? Is it the reason that 55 yo male actors have 20 yo female 'wives' on screen? Is it the reason that unless you are incredibly famous your career dies after 30? Do we have a paucity of great female actors because of sexual assault and harassment? It takes time to become a great actor and it seems that women are neither given the roles nor the time.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Wonder Woman was much cheaper than (the awful) B vs S and cost $149 million. It took $821 million so far (that number will increase).

It wasn't perfect but it did have scenes with older women fighting. You never see that. It also objectified Chris Pine. Now I'm not a fan of the 'if you can't beat em join em' school of sexism but it was interesting.

The second part of the film barely passes the Bechdel test and he ends up being the tragi-heroic figure but it was a good start. Except it probably won't be. Because there's a circular argument in Hollywood which is that people want the films there are. Yeah, because if I want to go to the cinema, I have to see what you produce.

[IfNot]

This is why I only really watch TV. Movies are for boys, but TV seems to be where the great female roles are. The film industry is controlled by men. So is TV, but tv scripts are more collaborative, and there are some women in the writers rooms.
Film still operates within the idea of "the Auteur". Scripts that studios and investors want to invest in generally adhere to the themes that men tend to write about. "Women's pictures" are still a secondary concern.
So, fewer written roles for women, hardly any female directors..if there is 1 cardboard cut out girlfriend role, who will they cast? The prettiest girl. I don't think they do it because try are planning to abuse her. Just that give a bunch of men a choice and they will go for fuckability over talent any time.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

This is why I only really watch TV.

That's really interesting. Because DH and I have been raving about all the women and PoC on Netflix. Take Marvel Defenders. Cheesy, superhero nonsense. But it is four people, one of whom has a disability, one is black, one is female. They are complex and interesting. And the white, able-bodied man is the shit one.

[OlennasWimple]

These statistics are interesting.

Most movie goers are younger (so arguably more interested in seeing a younger, female lead as it's already an established trope that older men can be fuckable but not for older women)

Women seem to go to the movies when they take their children (that's my interpretation of the fact that women were the majority at three of the five top grossing films when those include Finding Dory and The Jungle Book)

But an interesting increase in attendance by ethnic minority film goers. I wonder if this will trickle through to increased representation in films?

My film recommendation is The Help - definitely passes the Bechdel test and features lots of amazing older women actors. (Though not good for your white, middle class guilt....)

[annandale]

Hack it read one of those careers for girls stories when I was a kid 'Roberta the reporter' or similar, which stated as fact that women could not be newsreaders because their blink rate was too high. Okay then.

[BitterLittlePoster]

The point is not which movie made the most. The point is that films starring women actually do make money.

[starzig]

Is it not that a lot of women want a character they can relate to Maybe? And would rather see themselves as the pretty young thing than the middle aged woman they are.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

In that case why can we see ugly, short, old men? Are men not bothered about how they see themselves?

[BitterLittlePoster]

No, that's not it.

[BitterLittlePoster]

No to starzig's lazy contribution I meant

[BitterLittlePoster]

And user dude, a profit of 671 million (Wonder Woman) is more than a profit of 622 million (batman v superman).

[MrsTerryPratchett]

a profit of 671 million (Wonder Woman) is more than a profit of 622 million (batman v superman). And it stands to make more because, let's face it, I'll watch WW twice but I'm hella not watching BvsS twice. I'm quite sorry I watched it once.

[noblegiraffe]

Re TV being better than film, MTV did The Shannara Chronicles based on the fantasy books by Terry Brooks written in the late 70s, early 80s.
The first book he wrote was the Sword of Shannara, but the book they based the first series on was The Elfstones of Shannara, which was the second book. I read this in an interview with Terry Brooks:
"If you want to know why we chose Elfstones, rather than the first book, it’s because I got some flack in the first one because there were no female characters. The demographic that the video world is looking for is a mix of male and female characters. And the second story has strong female characters, and it has a good, unorthodox love story involved. And those are all elements that they want."

Which I thought was encouraging.

(The reason the first book has no female characters is because it's heavily ripped off Lord of the Rings, which is just awful for female characters).

[BitterLittlePoster]

You'd have to pay me to watch anything Batman related. I haven't seen Wonder Woman but I will watch it when it's on TV.