Child marriage in the USA

[PricklyBall]

BBC piece

I've posted about this before on Mumsnet (outside of FWR I get greeted with cries of "no, that isn't true" - though the Washington Post, New York Times, Independent over here have carried articles on it in recent years). Just thought I'd start another thread, by way of a bit of consciousness raising (and also possibly raise the idea that the UK ought to be pressing for an end to marriage before the age of 18 too).

No you are blaming political correctness and religion in the wrong way. Thats not the truth.

All I said about religion is that it isn't to do with religion but a culture where honour is important.
Political correctness does influence- as I said even karma nirvana, expects on this agree. It is the reason why issues are silenced, which was even acknowledged in the inquiry into the Rotherham abuse scandal. It's not make believe. I'm simply saying it shouldn't come in the way discussion.
It's operating here because my whole point has been minimised down to "it's not all...." and disagreeing with me about political correctness.

I don't disagree with you, but I don't think you have expressed it, in that way in previous posts.

This is why I say language very important.

I also don't think political correctness is wrong as such. It does have a place. Its when it is applied in a manner which is unthinking and does not think of other vulnerable groups or individuals, that it is a problem. This is in essence, a management issue, rather than a political correctness one.

I think the failure to grasp what the primary concern should be at all times, is the fundamental issue.

Part of the problem with the Rotherham scandal (and others) was the belief that the children were making "life style choices" rather than being sexually abused. This belief was based on the fact that what was happening was the kind of thing "girls like those" would choose to do. No political correctness in that belief, just people being prejudiced, blind, and plain wrong.

If this becomes focused on "opposing political correctness" obvious wrongs like that will be missed.

Missymoo Have you considered that people are not 'silencing' you on some aspects of what you are saying - they are simply not taking issue with aspects of what you are saying?

That is not silencing.

People are engaging with other aspects of what you are saying - particularly your identification of 'political correctness' as a significant factor in the abuse of young women - because they think you are wrong.

Again, this is not silencing.

I see that you have chosen your experts, who seem to concur with your analysis that 'political correctness' is a primary driver of the continued abuse (through forced child marriage) of young women in the UK.

Others disagree. Here , for example, is a paper arguing that what will prevent child marriage is not an end to 'political correctness' but rather empowerment and education. One can reason backwards, from here, that lack of these is a significant driver of the continuation of child marriage. Importantly, the paper nowhere suggests that a reduction of 'political correctness' will reduce child marriage.

The information about Maine is incorrect actually. You need parental consent for under 18 and parental and judge’s conviction consent for under 16.

Theres a lot of 'its illegal so whats the problem' type comments. Lots of abuses are illegal, they still happen. The first step is to make them illegal, the next is to change attitudes so they become immoral.

Its completely possible to do this, drink driving is seen as socially unacceptable. Why isnt abusing children and women dealt with in the same way?

I haven't chosen my experts- karma nirvana are a leading charity, they provide training to other agencies- they have significant authority to speak on such matters.
I have had a lot of involvement in this matter myself and contact with that charity. A lot of people are really unaware of the scale of the problem. I raised it here because it's something I feel strongly about and something that doesn't get much coverage and is relevant to a topic covering child marriage. How can people be educated to prevent it, if no one speaks about it?

Educating girls may be relevant in some countries- but in uk doesn't apply so much, the girls have access to education but are removed from it, I've had a scan of that document and don't see where it says that political correctness has no part to play in the lack of open conversation about child marriage in the U.K.

If you disagree with political correctness being a cause of not helping women from these groups- then why is there not more discussion. I regularly visit this forum and see issues about domestic violence, rape etc
But not about honour based violence? Why..... is it political correctness or do people just not care enough about issues affecting mainly Asian women?

Issues like this should be where feminism focuses to make positive change, instead of the usual man bashing it's obsessed with.

Missymoo, I had every sympathy for your concerns about forced marriage until you came out with this clanger. If you spent any time on the MN feminism boards, as you say you have, you would see that forced marriages, FGM, consent, the rights and wellbeing of children, etc. have all been discussed, though some of them not for a while. What you won't see is an obsession with men-bashing, which is a lazy stereotyping of feminism that bears little resemblance to reality.

I get that you're angry, but why direct it at the people on MN who are amongst the most likely to be aware of and concerned about the issue you care about? If you want to start a thread about forced marriages in the UK, then do! Open up a discussion instead of slinging mud at anyone who questions or disagrees with you.

I'm not angry, and it's hardly a clanger... I think people can handle the fact I said that without taking too much offence I would hope. Please spare me the mock outrage. I definitely think there is a lack of discussion around honour based violence/ forced marriage compared to other feminist issues. I'd be interested to know why? Like I said is it because people shy away from it in the name of political correctness or is it a case of it doesn't affect "me" so we can just not bother?
There have been comments made to me like - we have safeguarding units, it's illegal, may as well add "so that's it, all sorted done and dusted" while ignoring the fact that in the U.K. Lots of women and girls are suffering.

In my state, like many, 16 is the minimum age to marry with parental consent but for younger children to marry there must be judicial permission. There is some protection there, although I really don't understand how any judge could approve younger children marrying.

I think people can handle the fact I said that without taking too much offence I would hope. Please spare me the mock outrage.

There was absolutely zero offence or mock outrage in my post. But I find it hard to believe you want a serious discussion when you make ad hominem remarks. Thoughtful debate and comments about men-bashing feminists rarely go together.

I definitely think there is a lack of discussion around honour based violence/ forced marriage compared to other feminist issues. I'd be interested to know why?

So start a thread about it instead of derailing this one! Interested posters are going to miss it when it's buried in a thread about the legality of child marriage in the US.