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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Theresa May backs self ID

59 replies

Slimthistime · 18/10/2017 22:20

apparently, she said this at a dinner tonight

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks

OP posts:
quencher · 19/10/2017 00:19

So I have been thinking about why Tories are so supportive of the trans agenda and I think it is because like the limited social mobility in the 19th century which had new comers to wealth always trying to pass as old money it actually serves to cement rather than break down tradition and gender roles seriously** that just blew my mind. It is true with the way they have been going lately, including the comments about single men being a problem. Groups that don’t always conform to typical nuclear family has always been a problem for the conservatives. Their reforms have always been made to maintain this type of family value. I have read about places like Iran and religious fundamentalists who would rather have trans child to gay son or daughter.

The conservative line of thinking protects patriarchy and maintains it just like other groups and state around the world with similar family values and views.

A lot of teens who ID as transgender have autism so sterilising them gets rid of the 'autistic gene' as well.this angers me.

This week has been hell for women. Reading all the experiences has been disturbing. Just imagine how worse it will get once men have free entry to every female space they like. Just imagine it. Before, even when it was really bad, there was that space women could feel it belonged to us. We could group, think, offer safety. That will all be fucked and boundary blurred with no statistics to help. Without statistics they can’t offer help or tackle issues that concern women. Or it will all be all muddled up that it will be useless to tell between trans men and females.

Miffer · 19/10/2017 00:22

So.

Do we have any actual idea what these new changes would look like? Would it be an online form for instance? They are sketchy on the details.

No medical checks. Fine. So no checks at all? If there are checks who would possibly be qualified if we are removing medical from the equation? Clinical psychologists spring to mind but then they are medical aren't they? Criminal checks obviously wouldn't work when you have violent offenders at the forefront of the movement. Even age checks wouldn't be okay.

The thing is nothing is ever going to be good enough is it?

Is there a current model of this in another country?

Ereshkigal · 19/10/2017 00:52

but the logical conclusion to that stance is no more funding from the state.

Exactly. Don't they get this?

DJBaggySmalls · 19/10/2017 00:54

quencher
This week has been hell for women...Just imagine how worse it will get once men have free entry to every female space they like. Just imagine it. Before, even when it was really bad, there was that space women could feel it belonged to us. We could group, think, offer safety. That will all be fucked and boundary blurred with no statistics to help.

Its going to be worse than this bleak image; if we challenge them, we will be guilty of hate speech.
People who support this want women subjugated and silenced.

Ereshkigal · 19/10/2017 00:59

It's chilling, DJ. We need to push for misogyny to be made a hate crime under the equality act protected characteristics. Otherwise they will taunt us and we will be punished for reacting. We have no protection.

Bumbledumb · 19/10/2017 01:00

There are four European countries which allow legal gender recognition based on self-identification: Norway, Denmark, Malta and Ireland. In France the decision is no longer medical, but it does require the approval of a judge.

Trailedanderror · 19/10/2017 06:57

Selma
Give MPs specific examples of the problems - cuttings or a link to Muscato in the women's shelter, the attacks on women in Target unisex changing rooms etc.
I did that when I met my OP, photos and news report about Clare Derbyshire. I felt a bit of a loon, tbh- it's all so bizarre.
And the crux of the matter is that people with penises will be allowed into women's wards, into women's prisons and dv refuges and that's not a conversation that's easy to have.

QuentinSummers · 19/10/2017 07:24

If she is determined not to have it treated as an illness, then I take it treatment will not be provided by the NHS.
Great point datun and that's far more likely to be behind the conservatives support than any ounce of actually giving a shit about people.
There has been a huge rise to gender specialist clinics etc, bet the govt just want to wriggle out of paying for that.

crumpet · 19/10/2017 07:33

Bumbledumb - Ireland and Malta? The same Ireland and Malta which are so massively progressive in their abortion laws?

Genuinely mindbending.

Datun · 19/10/2017 08:06

As a matter of urgency, if you haven’t already done it, can you write to your MP.

If you feel as though it’s too big an issue to tackle, just brain dump and send.

Ask how it will stop people exploiting the law. What safeguards are there that every paedophile in the country will not now hang out in female changing rooms, throughout the entire summer holidays while women are taking their children/toddlers swimming? Naked. Because there is no crime against a woman being naked in a changing room.

Paint scenarios that they have to address. Because, let’s face it, no one cares about a harmeless transwoman. Literally no one.

And this is not some airy fairy slight change to the law that is just about semantics.

Legally redefining the definition of the word woman is profoundly exploitable. Imagining that there are not men out there who will do it is crazy.

Look at all the men have come out of the woodwork to difend people like Weinstein. The hashtag hertoo been started by transactivists to target women who disagree with them, because it’s literal violence.

Paris Lees who was on Newsnight the other night representing transwomen has just added his name to the #metoo campaign saying he’s been sexually harassed, etc

The same Paris Lee’s who insists he is even more of a woman because he transitioned quite young.

The same Paris Lees who said:

“I get the stuff about "power imbalance" but it just makes me feel sexy.”

“Last summer I went to Ibiza, where I was catcalled, sexually objectified and treated like a piece of meat by men the entire week. And it was absolutely awesome”

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/zn7b79/enjoying-catcalls-paris-lees-column

WOMAN means something. And it’s not a man who loves being treated like a piece of meat ffs.

Lottapianos · 19/10/2017 08:13

I'm so horrified by this. I think the vast majority of people are either unaware of this proposal, or are unaware of the implications. I want to share something about it on FB but am having difficulty forming any coherent thoughts at the moment.

Datun · 19/10/2017 08:18

Spreading the word on Facebook, or in friends circles is great. But writing to your MP is now urgent.

Really urgent. Do it today.

You can follow up with something more comprehensive. But write today then asking to represent you.

Lottapianos · 19/10/2017 08:21

You're right Datun. Will get on it today

cinnamonwoman · 19/10/2017 08:24

Maybe I am being cynical, but could it just be that they ARE de-medicalising it just so they can de-fund treatment?
This is the Tories after all...

The flaws of the new bill are so glaringly obvious it seems unthinkable that no politician could see the risks it poses for women, children and vulnerable adults.

Datun · 19/10/2017 08:40

I’m wondering if Theresa May is virtue signalling, purely because she knows it may not get through. But she can say she tried.

Although I doubt it.

To be honest, I don’t see many transactivists banging on about self identification. It doesn’t seem to be the main thrust of their beef.

It’s usually transwomen are women. But in terms of legality, they can be legal women now. With very little effort, if it was so important.

Lottapianos · 19/10/2017 08:50

And Jeremy Corbyn is right behind it all. Idiot.

busyboysmum · 19/10/2017 09:13

I have totally withdrawn my support for Jeremy Corbyn over his backing of this. What is he thinking?

Lancelottie · 19/10/2017 09:27

As far as I can see, every political party is backing this. Why?

What's their problem with the current, really rather modest, policy of wait two years and pay a token sum for a GRC?

Datun · 19/10/2017 09:30

I too don’t understand how making a legal change to your sex stops you being discriminated against.

Does that mean everyone with a GRC is not discriminated against now?

Are they saying that trans people are being discriminated against, but if they can wave a certificate in your face you have to do what they say?

Why don’t they look at the actual discrimination? And the reasons for it?

Why don’t they say you cannot be discriminated against by presenting as the opposite sex?

Anything more than that, they need to drill down and find out why people don’t agree. Why?

Idiots.

busyboysmum · 19/10/2017 09:37

It is hard to find anyone other than DUP who don't support this. Which is why we need to raise awareness of it. Or it's going to be passed quietly without comment. We cannot have that.

I've been bombarding my MP but he's labour and is following party line as far as I can see. My mum has been bombarding her Tory MP but no response from him thus far.

I'm not going to stop shouting about it. It's bullshit.

MrsKnightley · 19/10/2017 11:44

I have written (twice) to my MP who heads up the SNP at Westminster. Also, once, to all the MSPs that cover my constituency in Holyrood.

MrsKnightley · 19/10/2017 11:47

And only 1 (holding) reply so far from a Scottish Tory MSP. He says he will get back to me.

Interesting that Universities are going to be forced to uphold free speech and stop no-platforms for the likes of Germaine Greer - might bring more debates into the open. (Today’s Times)

Lancelottie · 19/10/2017 12:00

Upholding free speech generally, not just in universities, would be quite nice.

Provided it's not made illegal or a hate crime to say 'I know that you say you are a woman, but I don't share that belief', I think we could mostly go home happy.

BMacklin · 19/10/2017 12:21

Maybe it needs to be put in slightly different terms? Maybe something like :

If the bill goes through men will then be able to PRETEND to be transgender in order to harm women.

As in: it's not transgender people I have a problem with but bad men with evil intentions.

I think the other issues of whether you can change sex, for example, diverts the main issue: men in women's spaces. After this no you won't HAVE to change you just have to pretend to change.

misscockerspaniel · 19/10/2017 14:14

SelmaAndJubJub Mass MN letter writing campaign to No10?

The Prime Minister's speech yesterday, vowing to change the law, gives us the ideal opportunity to contact her on this topic. Write from the heart.