Who is listening to the Today show: debate over Trans rights and the parliamentary bill

[Bovneydazzlers]

Pleasantly surprised so far that the BBC are giving balanced picture and giving platform to Janice Turner as well as Stonewall.

I think more could be said that hormone blockers have side effects and likely to lead down path to being sterile etc though.

But gender diversity starts in utereo once the biological sex of the baby is determined. And you cannot stop this from happening.

By the time a child is 4/5 and in Reception, they have a clear and defining idea of what gender is.

The adults who determine this are the parents, siblings and family of the child.

It's utter nonsense and I would hope that no one with any sense of safeguarding towards a child would take the 'guidelines' seriously.

I'm happily brainwashing my boy with the awful hateful view that boys have penises and girls have vaginas and boys and girls can do ANYTHING they want and there are no boys toys or girls toys
And if his school tries to teach him otherwise they will have a fight on their hands.

I think what they need is yardley on there to discuss why a man can't have a vagina. Why surgery however limited is still worth it to few like herself if nothing else eases dysphoria but how it will never be possible to change sex even secondary charaterists. I also would like to hear her speak about jazz jennings et al who will never even have that hope of a reasonabley ok neo vagina &will face using their bowel to construct one and how lies are beong sold to young people about this.

I think an audience hearing this from an actual trans person who acknowledges he's a man, but still found choosing transion was necessary would force people to think about the reality of this pretense, and the reasons why TRA's are pushing the pretense, and doing so smacks the truth in their face imo.

I know it would be wounderful if an audience would wake up to rapists in female jails or rapey cotton ceiling or womens sports or the legal ramifications of changing the meaning of the word woman but i think it's the kid issue that they will care about and hearing that from a transexual person packs more punch imo. I know yardley gets alot of 'terf' abuse online but the general public who know nothing or little about this are more likely to accept this from her i think.

I agree totally with the medical student who suggested that this will be seen as horrific decades from now.

Elendon

Most of these idiots think all embryos are female until a few weeks old, I've lost count of the times transactivists have smugly informed me of this and told me to "educate myself about biology", they confuse it with the ovum I think. They all read the same old crap and don't question it. Like the 1:12 murder rate that's bandied about.

Re the murder statistics. This is from the ONS. Estimates are that trans people are no more likely to be murdered than anyone else. In fact slightly less likely.

They are represented by both green colours. Dark green is those who have sought medical treatment And light green is those who haven’t.

TRAs just make things up.

The more discussion, the more people will feel empowered to challenge the schools where their own children are concerned, the more they will have to row back.

1 in 12 murdered is clearly idiocy even before you look at any statistics. Why don't they use their brains?

Also as I understand it one murder in a year completely skews the figures as some years no trans people are murdered at all. It's too small a sample to be meaningful over time.

Is there a link, I'd like to listen?

I too was shouting at the radio this morning. On the whole I thought it was a reasonably balanced piece but if only people would start by defining what they mean by sex and gender it would be so much better (but maybe the trans arguments would then fall away.
The medical student woman was great - very clear and highlighted the dangers of pushing children into 'transing' .

All babies are female? In that case it's like giving voice and airtime to flat earther's, pro lifers who insist that a blastocyst is a child, and vaccine deniers.

Here are the WHO's guidelines on vaccine deniers

www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/315761/Best-practice-guidance-respond-vocal-vaccine-deniers-public.pdf

morningrunner

I got it from a gender critical site not public, so I can’t link. You might have to google ONS. If you can’t find it, let me know.

They will love to call you the flat earther if you argue with them Elendon. You have to be pretty confident and savvy, as sometimes they are quite well versed in the trans/intersex studies which do exist notwithstanding their idiotic beliefs about how people come into being and reproduce.

Why don't they use their brains?

It's because they have lady brains. And as we know, lady brains are rubbish for doing analytical tasks.

Is there a link, I'd like to listen?

It's here from 2:30:40:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b098bsy2

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05k7yjt

They have a dedicated page too.

They call me a bigot (as a catholic brought up in Northern Ireland I obviously never had any experience of bigotry) and also a TERF - like it's the worst slur in the whole wide world, the solar system and the universe.

I'd quite like to be called a flat earther - damn, no one has ever said that. I did struggle with why the USA and Russia were close neighbours geographically, especially as maps of the world are flat but then I was about 6 at the time.

No one with any sense calls those who question prostitution frigid anymore.

Nauticant

Trans is not synonymous with intersex though. So that's bullshit for a start.

"They will love to call you the flat earther if you argue with them Elendon. You have to be pretty confident and savvy, as sometimes they are quite well versed in the trans/intersex studies which do exist notwithstanding their idiotic beliefs about how people come into being and reproduce."

This is very true, Erish. In this respect they are very similar to climate change denialists who have accumulated a heap of papers on, say, the Younger Dryas rapid warming, the "hiatus" of the early part of this century etc., and can thus do what's known as a gish gallop (throw a whole load of facts one after another, without any context or analysis, but in such rapid-fire quick succession that in the time it's taken you to respond to one, they've already dumped another 4 on you). The problem is compounded by the fact that a lot of the original sources (journal papers) are behind pay walls - and believe me, you can't work out what a paper actually says from its abstract alone! Never mind assess how good their experimental techniques were (which requires a professional biologist actually working in that field), their sample sizes, or the robustness of their statistical analysis.

The data shows that it is using statistics in a way as to skewer the outcome. It's clear that this is disingenuous and a manipulation.

It even states that one trans person is murdered each year since statistics started.

We know that two women a week are murdered by a partner/ex partner.