Who is listening to the Today show: debate over Trans rights and the parliamentary bill

[Bovneydazzlers]

Pleasantly surprised so far that the BBC are giving balanced picture and giving platform to Janice Turner as well as Stonewall.

I think more could be said that hormone blockers have side effects and likely to lead down path to being sterile etc though.

It is such utter rubbish though.

How can this be peddled out as any sort of proof?

How can such generous bullshit allow children to postpone puberty?

It really pisses me off to have toys brought up as thought they prove something.

When we can freely have this debate, we can expose these attitudes to the light. Can only be a good thing.

''Safe spaces are 'sculpted' by the people that they are meant to be for.''

So thats good to know. Women can have our safe menstrual spaces after all.

Check this long twitter live stream from a transactivist out, which was helpfully retweeted by Helen from Mermaids.They really don't understand the problems people have with trans politics and gender theory at all do they?

mobile.twitter.com/rvedotrc/status/920570568281395201

Argh need an edit button!

Laying into Janice Turner as a TERF and saying that she's terribly using "women" to mean "cis women". Well, yes!

"Trans people are facing a huge backlash"
Actually fuck yes they are. The backlash is against the push to redefine the word woman and appropriate women's experiences, and inveigle themselves into women's spaces. Fucking right there is a backlash.

Poppy had a wishing well in the garden? How convenient for the narrative!

Gender is between your ears
No that's your personality you tit

Actually fuck yes they are. The backlash is against the push to redefine the word woman and appropriate women's experiences, and inveigle themselves into women's spaces. Fucking right there is a backlash.

This!

That "Rachel Evans" person-WTF!?

Three million tweets about that programme to herself.

If Stonewall's Trans Inclusion officer genuinely hasn't ever met anyone who has regretted their transition, then they haven't been doing their bloody job very well, have they?

(But I don't believe them. There's hundreds of detransitioners who have written about it.)

Leo's mother is a total dick

Ereshkigal

Dear God. The manipulation and gaslighting is spectacular in that thread.

As much as many men are not getting the metoo campaign, men don’t get women’s objections, either. Or if they do, they don’t care.

They are so certain that they should have their own way. So absolutely sure that this is not just their right, but that it is right.

Doesn’t come across as something they believe they ought to be entitled to. It comes across something that is an innate entitlement that they are actually entirely unaware of. Because reasons.

And doing this, despite women everywhere using words, language, ideas, concepts, statistics and experience to explain why it is not an entitlement.

I’m sure, positive actually that there must be some kind of mental disconnect. Most people, when you spell it out to them, will it least have some idea. They may vehemently disagree, but they will understand what you’re actually saying.

The bit about all this that I can’t get to grips with is if they are removing the diagnosis of gender dysphoria to be recognised as trans, how does that affect children?

As I understand it, adults do not want the gatekeeping element of this diagnosis.

But how does this affect deciding whether or not a child is trans? If there is no diagnosis of gender dysphoria, it’s quite openly nothing but gender stereotypes.

For instance, GIRES, the group who put lesson packs into schools, have produced material to educate children over trans.

They give three short stories for 3 to 6-year-olds. The first one is about a boy who wants to be a girl, the second a girl who wants to be a boy and the third about a child who is neither.

Without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria it’s meaningless.

Plus the material is shocking. It tells the children that they will get a massive party if they come out as trans.

They also include a thinly veiled threat in every lesson plan.

Understanding gender diversity starts here, at primary school level, before children’s views become influenced by the prejudices of the adults around them. In law, gender diversity is as important as race and ethnicity diversity. Religion, belief, or cultural norms may not be used to discriminate against those who are gender non-conforming.

www.gires.org.uk/classroom-lesson-plans/

(The packs for older children openly state girls have a girls brain and boys have a boys brain).

Well, girls do have girls' brains. And those brains are as diverse as the girls they belong to. What girls do not have is boy brains. And vice versa.

See also the Mermaids stall with puppies and sweets. They shouldn't be allowed to promote their agenda like this.

Dear God. The manipulation and gaslighting is spectacular in that thread.

It is, isn't it?

They are so certain that they should have their own way. So absolutely sure that this is not just their right, but that it is right.

Yes, exactly this.

I particular like the open acknowledgement that women may not like it but only "cis women" so who cares?

Lancelottie

Yeah, I think they trying to make a distinction in order to prove they can be swapped around.

It’s the constant warning that gender diversity is like a protected characteristic, which it isn’t. Gender reassignment is.

If they feel it necessary to add a threat to every single lesson plan, you have to ask yourself why.

They're writing it as per how the law is worded and tends to be interpreted by government agencies. Which is very vague and woolly and has not really been challenged legally and tested properly in court. And they're assuming that is how any new law changes will be drafted. But no, "gender diversity" is not a protected characteristic. So disingenuous.

They are using the equalities act to then tell you that gender diversity is important. In their opinion.

But have actually got the damn nerve to openly state that these children need to be taught about this, before adults can get to them. What adults? Parents?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/17/monks-mt-athos-fear-new-gender-law-could-enable-women-all-male/

The famous all-male population (monks) of Mount Athos (where all women and female animals except cats are banned) are protesting over self indentification laws just passed by Greece. They fear women will now simply declare themselves to be men to access the penisular.

Alison Pearson has a feature today in the same paper headed "when will the madness end.." Can't find it on line, but it is interesting that is two articles on the issue on the same day + the Today prog.

Too late for Greece but could sanity possibly still prevail in the UK? I shan't hold my breath.

Hear hear! thehumanrace And surely this is different from religion in that they are not asking for non discrimination, which should definitely be assured, they are asking for everyone else to believe or pretend they believe.

And the sense of entitlement is amazing. "Here, I'm different and you have to accommodate me without question and pretend to believe whatever I feel like telling you today. I may change my mind tomorrow but you will have to go along with that too. If you disagree you are just bigoted. There is no onus on me as a responsible person to respect the rights of others or consider any impact on others".

When I was a child, (born with a vagina) - at one point I wanted to be like a boy and insisted my mother gave me Y fronts to wear; and I also had short hair. If at the time anyone had suggested I had gender issues, I would have been horrified as it was just a phase. I feel for today's children - the world suddenly seems like a confusing place.