Have you noticed that the pay cap 'breaching' pay rises have gone to very male-dominated sectors first?

[scaryclown]

Why is this not being talked about,?

I think it is more to do with recent tragic events in London that have quite rightly reinforced public support for public sector employees. Now there is a chink in the negotiations I expect all areas to see more than 1%.

This. ^^^^^

OP - I thought this too! But I've mentioned it to others who don't see it in the same light and say I am over-thinking. It's not just that some sectors are male dominated, but it's also that certain jobs are linked to traditionally masculine attributes (eg the police - authoritarian, in control, physically strong, protective) whereas others are linked to traditionally female attributes (eg teaching - nurturing, caring, linked to caring for children etc) so it's as if traditionally masculine attributes are valued more than feminine ones.

However, I'd like to think that iseenodust is right - particularly the last point!

Isn't it that they have independent pay bodies who have consistently recommended a higher than 1% pay rise? The government have ignored them until now but have now 'taken on board' their recommendations.

Yes, it was the first thing I noticed. Police, approx. 70% male, in comparison to Nurses, about 90% female. I would be interested to see other diversity data, such as ethnicity, too.

I hadn't, but now you've said it it's blindingly obvious

I would argue that teaching, children's centres and care professions do more to reduce crime than big stick professions. I think it's harsher cuts and lower pay in these, female dominant, sectors that lower the country's productivity and increase poverty.. Or the effects of poverty, which is what generates the most difficult failures of authority, crime and security..

But maybe that's too extreme..

Mind you it's good, as it gives more levers to unions to pressure pay rises elsewhere..

Yes I thought that too OP. I'm a nurse and we are still trying to get away from that 'angel' it's a vocation type view. I went to university for 3 years, plus 2 more to get enhanced training. I'm not an 'angel' I'm a trained professional!

I really doubt that it is because they are male dominant.

I thought the same op. I don't see how they can pick out only certain parts of the essential services and decide that only they need a pay rise.

I think it is more to do with recent tragic events in London that have quite rightly reinforced public support for public sector employees.

I can understand that but hospital staff were also vital after London Bridge. Grenfell and Manchester etc.

It's nothing to do with any of that. It's purely a numbers game. There are 199,000 workers in the whole of England, Wales and the British Transport Police force. Lifting the pay cap is, relatively cheap.

There are 320,000 nurses and Health Visitors, 26,000 Midwives, 360,000 Healthcare Assistants, 21,000 Ambulance staff, 152,000 Science and Technical staff, and 190,000 NHS Infrastructure staff. That's before you look at staff in GP practices. Lifting the pay cap in the NHS is going to be extremely expensive.

It's not a 'boys and their toys' thing. It's 'what is cheap to do' thing.

I have noticed.

Office based work (private and public sector) is now very badly paid. It's mostly done by women and mostly done by mothers because there aren't many other jobs which fit in with available childcare. Those same mothers usually have far high expenses (childcare, child rearing etc) than your average male employee

I do get annoyed when I hear of the police etc getting another pay rise when they're already earning three times the amount I earn and I haven't had a pay rise for most of my working life (15 years).

I think it is.
From a tory perspective, law and order is an easier sell than care, I understand that, but also the 'traditional' view of nurses is that they are wives of 'real' breadwinners, and less than, and support staff to people doing the 'real' medicine.. Male doctors and this the root of Conservative thinking if whether nurses and teachers should be paid properly.

Similarly there is a 'typing pool' view of female university and council Admin and managerial staff that is similar.

The nurse = pin money job is I am sure far more embedded into old tory thinking than we would like to admit.

Feeding into this of course is if they raise the pay for nurses and teachers, a. Crony privatisation businesses won't be able to make so much profit b. Crony privatisation businesses won't be as easily able to offer a premium to cherry pick expertise from the NHS, so leaving the training burden on the state, but the profit gain disproportionately with the private companies.

But the reason doesn't matter, it's a gender biased pay rise within the sector, so a good basis for legal pressure imo

Yes I thought this too at first.

Being really, really cynical though, it could be because out of all the public services, they need the police on their side the most if there were to be strikes/civil disobedience. Depending on how things go over the next couple of years (especially the Brexit talks), it is not completely out of the bounds of possibility that there could be general strikes and civil unrest. Hopefully not, obviously but they could have made the calculation that spending money on the police now will help them deal with the fallout if the economy takes a nose dive and discontent rises.

Prima facia I would think sex has something to do with it.

Men in uniform you mean? :)

They are areas with particularly strong unions. Unions are still incredibly male dominated and focused on traditionally male roles, even in sectors like Local Government which have huge numbers of very poorly paid female employees.

I would argue that teaching, children's centres and care professions do more to reduce crime than big stick professions

You don't even need to argue that - every study done shows this. You improve the lives of women and you improve the lives of families and children, and children who are engaged are less likely to commit crimes.

I feel like this big picture/business case analysis has been left out for a long time - things like means testing child benefit must cost more to administer than the flat entitlement. I feel like free prescriptions and dentistry for pregnant women wouldn't be passed today, despite the clear and proven link to improved fetal health - ie. the business case is it saves money over all (as well as resulting in improved societal health)

It wouldn't surprise me at all if politicians considered the male dominated professions as somehow more worthy

I agree wholeheartedly with you op - that was my first thought exactly. Yet ive not heard it mentioned in the media anywhere. Typical.

Office based work (private and public sector) is now very badly paid. It's mostly done by women and mostly done by mothers

I'm usually loathe to say "what nonsense", but...
Unless you mean something different? There are millions of male office workers and millions of non-mother office workers.

I presume she means 'admin' type roles - every job I've ever been in, every office I've visited, the majority of the standard 'admin' roles have been filled by women. No idea of their motherhood status I admit.

Since when are doctors male? Most people I know discuss medicine as a feminine profession. When my father was at medical school 70% of his cohort were female. In my family female doctors far outnumber male ones. In my own experience of the medical field I have seen just as many female doctors as male ones. Loads of my friends from school, a girls school, were offer numerous medical school places. I can agree with the perception the policing is male dominant but medicine? No way.