Do you think you can be a feminist and a stay at home parent ?

[user1492337624]

Wondering what your views are on this ?

I agree with Sparrowhawk and Anatidae and find it patronising to say that choosing to be a SAHM isn't a feminist choice. This sort of statement just adds to the devaluing of the pursuit of caring for children.

*TBH the 'feminist choice' thing baffles me. A choice is something you make for practical reasons generally, given the circumstances you're in. It's not incumbent on women to make choices that they don't want to make just because it's a 'feminist choice' and I say that as a very staunch radical feminist.

Feminism is about understanding and removing the limitations to women's choices, not judging the choices women make by some sort of feminist standard.*

Agree completely.

"A choice is something you make for practical reasons generally, given the circumstances you're in"

True. Its just (statistically) it seems there are overwhelmingly more practical reasons for mothers to be SAHPs than fathers...

To my mind it isn't a question of whether its worthwhile to be looking after children and whether it should be valued (of course it is and it should).
Its a question of how come the lions share has fallen to mothers rather than fathers and what impact does that have on women in society (including economically).
What would it take for more fathers to be SAHPs or the part-time worker/primary carer? Why are there comparatively few?

(Incidentally has anyone actually said on this thread that you can't be a feminist and a SAHP? The OP didn't. Aren't we all vehemently agreeing that you can?)

Really interested to read everyone's views.
I've just become a SAHM, after a lot of thought and financial planning around ensuring continued pension contribution and some rejigging of household money. I'm happy it is the right thing for all my family at this point in time.
But I do worry about what I've given up in terms of career potential given I could feasibly work for another 25-30 years and in particular how this might influence (or not) my two daughters or my son around equality and gender.

TBH the 'feminist choice' thing baffles me. A choice is something you make for practical reasons generally, given the circumstances you're in. It's not incumbent on women to make choices that they don't want to make just because it's a 'feminist choice' and I say that as a very staunch radical feminist.

Feminism is about understanding and removing the limitations to women's choices, not judging the choices women make by some sort of feminist standard.

Yes yes to ^^ TheSparrowhawk.

I think that the standards by which men and women are judged are so vastly different (which should be the same and equal) that they create enormous pressure on women - to be all and do all.

I agree dame, that's exactly what I was saying. In terms of the individual choice, that's something a woman makes based on what's in front of her, the question of whether it's feminist or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is why so many women make that choice on a societal scale and what factors are influencing that choice and as you say resulting in more women staying at home than men. My point isn't that the choice is neutral or uninteresting, my point is that the questions around the choice only become relevant when you look at the bigger picture - interrogating individual choices is a pointless exercise.

dame I think the gender pay gap is one of the main reasons why it is often the women who are sahps rather than men. I know my husband would love to be a sahd but his earnings are more than my current earning potential. I would be loathe to reverse roles though even if my earning potential was greater than his (it could be within 2 years if I worked in my degree field). But frankly I love being a sahm and I don't want to go to work for at least a few more years. Being a sahm is by far the better side of the deal and is a choice I am immensely happy with.

I feel like being a SAHM on and off for almost a decade now, despite being financially provided for by the state at first (as a single mother) and now my DH (since having children with him) has stripped me of value and self-confidence. I am dreading my third round of maternity this coming January, but it has to be who takes it as a) I have boobs and b) I earn around 12k a year, DH earns around 55k - no brainer, right? I don't enjoy most/many aspects of motherhood and being a SAHP kind of defines you as mother and little else... some women are cut out for this, some are not. That probably very much depends on how much you view it as a feminist choice. Basically, how much you enjoy it and whether or not it leaves you feeling depressed and lonely.

All I can say for myself personally is that I'm glad it's the last time I'll have to do it and am looking forward to self-improvement.

I come at this the other way, I think. I don't think being a SAHP is a feminist choice (for many of the reasons already outlined). I am a SAHP and therefore don't identify as a feminist.

I'm a SAHP (not my preferred term though) because my mother wasn't and I hated it. I'm the best qualified person to parent my child.

Consider myself a feminist but I admit I'm not towing the party line on this issue and sometimes feel bad about that.

I'm a SAHM because I refuse to run myself into the ground working full time and doing wifework and doing night feeds etc. My partner takes medication for a chronic illness that makes him drowsy so can't do night things. I'm not going to be a martyr. Too many women carry most of the load. Might as well get some benefit out of the patriarchy. That said, i am in Australia and I don't think SAHM are quite as vulnerable here. I may be wrong.

Looks like I'm restarting a discussion which has run its course but I'm surprised anybody would say that you can't be both a sahm and a feminist. I'm a sahp and staunch feminist. A lot of posters referred to not removing themselves from the workforce, or talked about being quite comfortably off and deciding that living on their husbands wage made most sense. I know mumsnet is typically seen to be middle class and 'comfortable' but those things aren't even a consideration for some people.

I had to leave university beause I fell pregnant. I gave up education because I needed to raise my son and his dad clearly had no intention of doing it. There were other complicating factors (I had severe and undiagnosed mental health problems at the time) but I was a single parent Iiving on benefits. I had only one interview during that time. It was during the recession and I had no chance. I moved in with my now husband, who had a job. In order to increase my employability, I started a course. That is still ongoing. I also worked on my mental health. I should eventually earn much more than my husband so it looks like I will work at some point in the future while he becomes a sahp and possibly does a course to improve his options, or we will both work, or one of us will work part time depending on the exact situation. He is in a low paid job.

Stating that I couldn't be a feminist whilst making the only sensible choice for my family is ridiculous. It seems to suggest that I should have continued with my search for a minimum wage job with an employer who is happy to take on somebody with zero experience or relevant qualifications, just to be doing what looks like the right thing to outsiders and prove myself as a feminist. Looking at why that choice was my only real option and how I got here makes more sense, not bashing me for doing the best I could in the situation I was in.

However, my husband doesn't see my contributions as worthless and 'wifework' isn't really applicable to me, despite being a sahm. He looks after children when not at work, cooks, cleans, tidies etc. Is basically a decent husband and dad. Our marriage has given me financial security should we split up. Before we had decided that we would marry, my name was to be put on the deeds to ensure that I wasn't made vulnerable by being a SAHM.

I don't feel any guilt or feel that I'm not 'toeing the party line'. I'm currently a sahm and a big bad feminist

Couldn't agree more, Splandy.

I agree too Splandy, being a feminist is about a lot more than blindly throwing yourself into work. It's about your identity and sense of value too.

I think you can as an individual and I agree with everyone who says we only ask this question because raising children is so undervalued.

However, My personal experience having experienced both sides of the equation is that being a sahm made me feel completely excluded and isolated from society st large, and at the mercy of fate (what if something were to happen to my dh?). I also hated the subtle ways in which my relationship with dh changed, and generally felt a sense of failure at not being able to put my education and skills to use. I certainly didn't feel I was "at choice" (and coming back to work when I chose to return was arduous and painful and far from straightforward..)

Moreover, my experience of working in a male dominated field for many years (finance) is that men with sah partners are generally speaking the worst offenders in terms of gende bias (conscious or unconscious), understanding of childcare/work life balance issues, etc. Not everyone of course - but enough to create a pattern.

In sum I am not convinced that feminism is about such a narrow set of choices as that. if it's always the woman who stays at home because of the pay gap; if childcare is expensive, inflexible, badly resourced; if work environments continue to be organised around a patriarchal set or values and practices and so are inherently hostile to women and to mothers in particular... we as individuals may "choose" but on a societal level we are perpetrating the patriarchy.

I stopped working full time as I was sick of doing everything at home as well as work plus leaving the kids in crappy childcare when they were still so small.

There's a quote by Germaine Greer about women wanting it all and getting it all - all the work.

That really resonated with me, I felt like I got ALL the work, the mental load, the juggling, the pressure to cook from scratch etc.

I thought fuck this, because everything got done and what got lost was me because I didn't even have time to have a pee in peace.

Is feminism doing it all?

Sure men should step up, but if they don't?

So now I work part time and my work life balance has been restored.

Yes, of course.

What a daft question.

Not going to RTFT.

I will read it sometime, just not tonight. It's not a night for thinking.

To say that being a SAHM is not ok is saying that the economic sphere outside the home is more important than what goes on in the home which I think is bullshit.
The home is MORE IMPORTANT than working. We work for money to support our families, we don't just breed workers for the capitalist machine.

Men almost never choose to SAH. It's not denigrating the importance of parenting to question why or to highlight the economic vulnerability of SAHMs, or the disadvantages mothers face at work, including in competition with fathers who have wives AH.

Its a question of how come the lions share has fallen to mothers rather than fathers and what impact does that have on women in society

^^this is something I ponder fairly frequently.

But in answer to the original questionnaire of course you can be a SAHP and a feminist.

However, it isn't always a choice. Some women have to stay at home whether they like it or not due to barriers such as childcare/ disability. And more women seem to be in this position than men.

I was a stay at home mom and i never returned to work. NOBODY decides whether or not you are a feminist except yourself.

I think that the current world of anti-pink etc. Is removing the FUN from happy children's worlds. There is a gender identity and difference in children and adults.

Our dd (who chose to wear pink until about age 13) is attending university to be an engineer, just like her father. Our ds loves nurturing animals and will someday be a wonderful father if he and wife choose. He is also at a university and that is a tremendous accomplishment due to his dyslexia. I was lucky enough to stay home and help him negotiate the teachers/academia that define intelligence by spelling/memorization skills.

I do not believe that feminism is helping our world. Humanism may be a better option. We as women are so much better now than my early years. We cannot cut out men. They are not our enemy. My dh is the reason that our dd is becoming an engineer. His example is the same for our kind, nurturing son. My presence in our home is a very real contribution to our family for nutrition, safety, social and education issues, home upkeep and the reason that our home was not used as a party house.

A job outside our home is a choice that we decided was less good than my skills in our home. I am great at creating a warm, healthy, safe haven for my family. I do not think that a person who works is worse than i am; nor do i believe that my skills put me at a disadvantage in the world or as a role model for our children.

The world is neither black and white nor pink and blue, feminist vs humanist, man vs woman, we put those lines in place, we can be better also.

Very interesting thread and very relevant to me as I'm currently a SAHM but thinking about going back to work (some opportunities have come up) but I have a baby who I adore and BF so am really struggling with the options. I need to figure out if the (non financial) cost of getting someone less qualified than me to look after DD2 is worth it to get back into a field I love with long term prospects - and of course the benefit of being less vulnerable (being totally reliant on DH's wage). Whilst DD2 is a baby I doubt we'll benefit as a family hugely financially (we'll see). Whilst DH is great in many ways and does help out more and more around the house and with the kids, of course being at home most of the drudgery / housework / mental load falls to me. I love the kids bit, the housework bit is bloody awful, and totally undervalued by society at large (as is the kids bit to be fair, although slightly less so).

I was earning the same as DH when we had our first DD. I was forced by society into being a SAHM effectively as we briefly talked about him staying home but then realised that at the time only I was entitled to a year off and very good maternity pay for the first 4 months (I think I got about 80% of my salary) - we would have been several thousand pounds worse off if he'd stayed at home (he was only entitled to 2 weeks paid leave). So, it was an economic decision given the choices we had - which were reflective of how our society sees the roles of men and women in childrearing. From that point on my DH made more advances in his career (and hence more money) than me, so it became a more sensible family decision further down the line to move for his new, better paid, job. So, I became a SAHM for several years while we moved around and he climbed the career ladder.

One thing I hate more than anything else is when people go on about how 'lucky' I am that I'm a SAHM as if it's easy. We're lucky as a family that we can do this and don't have to work all the hours in an incredibly stressful way just to make ends meet, yes, but I've given up years of potential career progression and the financial security that would bring if our marriage goes tits up. And had to do the bulk of the toilet cleaning, cooking, pot washing, mental load, bill paying and general boring stuff that no-one wants to do.

Abbylee I would say Feminism definitely does not seek to cut out men, nor make them an enemy, it seeks to ensure that men and women are treated as equals. Men can be (and many are ) feminists too.

We cannot cut out men.

Who said we should? Feminism is about releasing women, and therefore also men, from the restrictions and expectations of a patriarchal society.

In a truly feminist society, men would be just as likely as women to choose to be the SAHP, and it would be valued work. The choice would not have to be restricted by the woman being the one who gets more maternity benefit, and the man often being the one who earns more (because he is likely to be older and therefore more advanced in his career), so it's financially easier for the woman to step back from working. Women would not be discriminated against in the workplace for becoming parents, when men are rewarded because they've proved themselves responsible and reliable. All this and more means that it's rarely a free choice to become a SAHP.