Do you think you can be a feminist and a stay at home parent ?

[user1492337624]

Wondering what your views are on this ?

Yes, I believe so.

I think that traditionally female activities such as caring for children/disabled relatives/elderly parents are undervalued by society and that there is something very feminist about saying 'I am doing this because I think it's worthwhile'

damofdilemma I don't see financial dependence as being 'that bad' really within a family. Families are often interdependent on each other.
Sometimes being a SAHM/unwaged gives more choice overall...e.g. I'd be a trailing spouse if it meant we could live in certain countries, or (my RL situation) I'm relying financially on DH while I study for a better career long term....

Having said that I wouldn't become a SAHM/financially dependent unless I knew there was a 'back up plan' if everything went tits up. (e.g. I'm married, if DH died I'd get his insurance/work pension money, my parents are youngish and fittish and I could crash with them until I get sorted etc)

I think it could potentially make you an angry feminist! Like I'm an angry feminist every time I think about the mental load I carry alone for the family compared to my husband. I wish my opinions on feminist issues had the power to cause greater change but that doesn't mean we don't have life to get on with in the meantime.

I don't think SAHP are valued in society because we only value roles which have a money attached to them. SAHPs are normally women.
That could be BECAUSE it's not valued and so men think it's beneath them (ergo women are culturally persuaded to do it) or it could be not valued because it's normally women that do it.

It does make you vulnerable, but only because as a society we've allowed it to by undervaluing it so much. It would be easy for a government to make SAHP a viable childcare option without the SAHP being utterly reliant on a 'generous' (or just fair) partner. They just don't, because it doesn't serve capitalism very well.

So it's maybe not a feminist choice, but that's only because we accept it as of low value. Looking after children is a valuable pastime IMO and I wish that we could change the attitude towards that rather than assuming someone is not feminist because she is not an economic unit.

I don't know if I used ergo correctly in that post, so I chanced it!

Dear god. This kind of thing irritates me to no end. I am a woman. I have exercised my free will in deciding to partner up, get pregnant and stay home to raise my children. Obviously this has come at a cost. I have of course become very dependant on my husband financially. But it's not like I wasn't aware that you don't get paid for being a SAHM. I wasn't forced into this, my husband and I discussed various childcare arrangements. I have not been brainwashed into thinking that only women can raise children or some other patriarchical nonsense, I was raised by a SAHF myself. I weight up the pros and cons and felt that the benefits outweighed the costs for me. I made a deliberate and informed choice about how to live my life. And yet I am accused of not knowing my own mind, or doing myself a disservice or pandering to the patriarchy. If a man tells a woman what to do with her life it's wrong but if a bunch of women do it then that's feminism apparently. Bollocks!

"And yet I am accused of not knowing my own mind, or doing myself a disservice or pandering to the patriarchy. If a man tells a woman what to do with her life it's wrong but if a bunch of women do it then that's feminism apparently. Bollocks!"

Has anyone actually said those things to you?

Except literally no one has said that ttb

plant ergo means therefore. I'm not sure if therefore was the word you wanted but it did make perfect sense in your sentence

It's never as simple as that though is it Ttbb. You don't just get plonked down in the middle of your life without any past or cultural influences. You probably felt it best to be a SAHP because you had one yourself. Why was it you and not your H who decided to do it?

I always see it said on these threads that feminists tell SAHMs that what they're doing is wrong. And yet, I'm a feminist and I know a lot of feminists and I've read a lot of feminist literature and I have never ever once come across any feminist saying those things. In the context of feminism it makes absolutely no sense to tell a SAHM that they don't know their own mind etc - I can't see any genuine feminist actually saying something so stupid. So why does it keep cropping up? Why are all these nameless, formless feminists always quoted saying such idiotic things?

I think part of it is a deliberate effort on the part of anti-feminists to paint feminists as the ones who are trying to control women. And for some reason, in spite of the absolutely enormous amounts of evidence right in front of their face that this is not what's happening, lots of women still seem to believe it. I mean, it's not feminists who prevent women from getting abortions, or cause women to be fired from their jobs. And yet somehow feminists are pointed out as being the ones causing the problem. I mean, a few seconds of thought should let you know that that's bullshit.

As for whether you can be a SAHM and a feminist, of course you can. Same as you can be a scientist and a Christian. You can understand a point intellectually (ie the facts around why being a SAHM can make you vulnerable, inequalities in parenting etc) and still partake in that setup for the good it does you personally and because of your own beliefs.

I knew that !

Is user...624 writing an article or dissertation? Where have they gone?

I'm a SAHP and I consider myself a feminist. Was this situation of my own choosing? Or did the choice come about due to external / societal factors? A bit of both, in my case.

Whilst being a non-earner has made me vulnerable in so many ways, I don't ever regret choosing to look after my children, although I some times do regret not having a career and independence.

I always see it said on these threads that feminists tell SAHMs that what they're doing is wrong. And yet, I'm a feminist and I know a lot of feminists and I've read a lot of feminist literature and I have never ever once come across any feminist saying those things. In the context of feminism it makes absolutely no sense to tell a SAHM that they don't know their own mind etc - I can't see any genuine feminist actually saying something so stupid. So why does it keep cropping up? Why are all these nameless, formless feminists always quoted saying such idiotic things?
There's another thread about leg shaving where women are being told they don't know their own minds. By feminists.

No they're not seachange, unless you're reading something that I'm not.

I'm a feminist and I was a SAHM for a few years. So I definitely think that it's possible.

However, I do think that being a SAHP is undervalued by society, and that this will probably continue while women are overwhelmingly more likely to do it. In other words I think we would live in a more equal society in general if the numbers of SAHMs and SAHDs were more similar. And by making that choice, you are (in a tiny way) contributing to this overall picture.

Obviously, everyone has to make the right choice for their family and can't make every decision thinking about the greater good. But for these reasons I agree with the posters who worded it (much more succinctly than me) as "you can be a feminist, but it's not a feminist choice".

Only to the extent that none of us know our own minds, Seachangesell. We're all a complicated mixture of conscious and unconscious assumptions, instincts and societal influences, and I don't see what's wrong with exploring aspects of feminism in that light.
This book on the subject is brilliant and fascinating.

Discussing the way in which behaviour is influenced by the society the person lives doesn't amount to telling people they don't know their own minds. English people tend to say 'bless you' when someone sneezes. Observing that and trying to find out why people do that is nothing to do with people knowing their own minds, it's just about understanding the process that made that a 'thing'. Equally, women in western society tend to remove body hair. They don't have to do that, but practically every woman does it. So it's interesting to find out why that's the case. It's nothing to do with knowing minds, it's about understanding why society has developed in that way and not another way.

Thanks countess. I may well read that book- I'll add it to the list. And I'm pretty clued up on it anyway.
My point was that I don't think it's such a stretch that feminists would argue that being a SAHM is not a real 'choice ' but just acting under the influence of patriarchy, just the same as they might say about leg shaving.
Sorry, a bit garbled - need to do the school run!

And sparrow. I don't disagree with you at all on how interesting it is.
It is, it really is.
I just like to question things before I make up my mind.

'My point was that I don't think it's such a stretch that feminists would argue that being a SAHM is not a real 'choice ' but just acting under the influence of patriarchy, just the same as they might say about leg shaving.'

Again, this doesn't amount to 'not knowing your own mind.' Every single choice a human makes is constrained by the situation they find themselves in - not a single choice is 'free' - everything has events leading up to it and consequences following on from it. I can only choose to eat a sandwich today if a sandwich is available, I can buy it, I'm not allergic to it etc etc etc. Every choice, no matter how tiny, has a massive web of circumstances around it. Understanding the web of circumstances around the choice to be a SAHM isn't about who knows their mind or not, it's about understanding the processes that lead to, for example, far far more women choosing to stay at home than men, and the consequences of that imbalance. There isn't a value judgement involved about how well someone knows their mind - each individual woman does whatever works for her at the time - but understanding the bigger societal picture makes it more likely that fewer women will find themselves in situations where they don't actually have a choice (eg because they can't get flexible working, because they're controlled and pressured into it etc) or where the consequences of that choice are dire (eg not having any financial security).

Staying at home to look after children is a worthwhile activity - it'd be very hard to argue otherwise, given that children are essential to continuation of the human race and someone has to look after them. However, in our capitalist, patriarchal society being a SAHM isn't valued at all and for the woman herself, being a SAHM can leave her very vulnerable. This absolutely should not be the case and so understanding why that situation has arisen and seeking to change it is a positive thing, something that feminists have worked for for a long time.

Camomila - 'family money' is an interesting concept. It implies the sole earner puts all of their income into a joint account to which both parties have equal access and equal rights.

That seems an eminently reasonable set up to me but sadly not all SAHPs have that. (If any SAHWs on this thread don't have that arrangement, try suggesting it to your partner, be interested in the reactions).

Financial dependence is one of the lynch-pins of securing the male patriarchy (look at The Handmaids Tale - removing access to employment and bank accounts was pivotal).

More women than men live in poverty.
More women than men are primary carers for children with inadequate financial support from absent fathers.
Feminist or not, SAHP or not, - everyone should be interested in improving that.

Agree with the above from sparrowhawk.

A decision made in an individual context can be feminist even if the larger societal setting for it is not.

We see this a lot. Is a system where some children get to go to selective schools and others get to go to shitty sec moderns fair? Possibly not. But the individual family in that situation cannot be blamed for sending their kid to selective if the alternative would be bad for the child.

Similarly a family can have a sahm setup which benefits them while accepting that wider societal ramifications of women generally being the lower paid/sahm/more financially vulnerable exist.

Our choices aren't made in a vacuum and very few people want to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Martyrs may be admired but they are not often emulated.

Interesting thread.

I don't think SAHMs are in any way damaging the chances of other women or contributing to an unfair system - that doesn't make sense to my mind. I also don't agree with the concept of SAH as not being 'a feminist choice.' Being a SAHM is a practical choice, it's made in the context of a world that makes it difficult for parents, and for sexist reasons, mothers in particular, to work. Someone has to look after children, it's not a frivolous pursuit. Some women do that and not paid work, that's just a fact.

The feminist issue around SAH is not about whether SAHMs are damaging a cause or any such nonsense. It's around the fact that children are necessary for the continuation of the human race and yet having and raising them is considered to be a useless hobby that men have to accommodate. That is the issue that leads to women being vulnerable because society places no value on what they do, despite the fact that if they didn't do it, we'd eventually all die out.

What age of child is relevant for starters.

Personally I believe EBF is absolutely a feminist choice and that requires a lot of contact with the child. It's not as easy as saying feminism = paid work.

As far as I'm concerned feminism has to involve embracing women's bodies for what they are, not treating pregnancy and breastfeeding as unfortunate and impractical.

Just wanted to add my voice to those saying being a SAHM needs to be valued, and not seen as an inconvenience. I'm a bit depressed as a SAHM, and that's in no small part down to the way it's viewed. I want to feel like I'm still part of society, not doing something frivolous or lazy. I want to feel that when my DCs go to school there will be family-friendly job opportunities for me and my time at home won't be seen as a 6 year jolly watching daytime tv. I want to feel like I matter, and that what I do now matters. I know I could try to work in my confidence and get a paid job but I don't feel that would solve the issue - I want to be with my DCs, but I want society to recognise that parenting matters.

TBH the 'feminist choice' thing baffles me. A choice is something you make for practical reasons generally, given the circumstances you're in. It's not incumbent on women to make choices that they don't want to make just because it's a 'feminist choice' and I say that as a very staunch radical feminist.

Feminism is about understanding and removing the limitations to women's choices, not judging the choices women make by some sort of feminist standard.