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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

TERFs again

51 replies

AnotherSpartacus · 30/08/2017 12:12

Over on another, student-centric forum, I've just been trying to explain how the word 'TERF' is typically used as an insult. I linked to terfisaslur.com/ only to be told that TERFs apparently say 'much worse' to transwomen all the time. No response when I asked where all the threats of violence, rape and death from feminists directed at transwomen were, unsurprisingly. They also seemed unable to differentiate consistently between gender identity and biological sex, which made any real discussion impossible. Very frustrating.

Anyway, the point of this thread is that I was linked to this page as an explanation of why calling women TERFs is acceptable: rationalwiki.org/wiki/Trans-exclusionary_radical_feminism There is just so much wrong here I don't even know where to begin. It's especially dismaying that a site labelling itself 'rational' is in fact anything but - and that people appear to be reading it and taking it seriously as a source.

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 30/08/2017 12:17

Have you asked them if they would also use the N-word if Rationalwiki told them that it isn't a slur, just a factually correct description of black people?

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 30/08/2017 12:44

Tell that it is simply inaccurate as 'TERFs' will happily include transmen and any other biological female, into their spaces. So they can call us PERFs, by all means

bambambini · 30/08/2017 13:40

Link the forum for a giggle - g'wan, g'wan

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 13:43

G'wan, g'wan, g'wan... (from father ted)

I'm not sure though, it's a rabbit hole I want to peek into!

It's terribly worrying that this is what is believed and discussed by university students. Under the title of 'rational'. When I was at uni it was the environment and whether blur or oasis were betterBlush - much easier to continue to follow post university in an ethical and meaningful manner.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/08/2017 13:45

"Rational" Wiki is not a legitimate source. Any student citing it in an essay would, I hope, be laughed at, and marked down.

It is worse even than Wikipedia which at least tries to present balanced opinions.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 13:46

I'd never heard of it.

I don't think it's just Terfs that think xx is woman and xy is a man; I'd bet the majority of men think that too.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 13:46

(In response to its first paragraph)

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 30/08/2017 13:56

What I love is that they assume ant gender critical person thinks the same as another GC on all subjects, just because they are all fucking thought clones. You assume my opinion, that's literal violence, right there. Opinions are a spectrum dammit, not a binary. You are mis-opinioning me, you bigot

Datun · 30/08/2017 14:06

I'm not sure that something written by a transactivist can legitimately be called rational exactly.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 30/08/2017 14:24

Rad Fems do not want to enforce the gender binary, they don't believe in the gender binary 'cos it's just a load of sexist shit. Radfems want both sexes, plus intersex people, to wear what they like, love who they like and retain their rights. Sounds terrifying doesn't it.

I have seen radfems get A Bit Cross but that's it, no abuse at all. The death threats and rape threats coming form people who believe in shit sexist stereotypes is chilling.

SylviaPoe · 30/08/2017 14:33

Rational wiki is written by the rationalist community. It centres around areas where men working for tech companies tend to work, like the Bay Area, San Francisco.

Obviously that includes many trans women, because trans women are massively over represented in tech.

whoputthecatout · 30/08/2017 14:39

rationalwiki: Grin GrinGrinGrin

Rational? You couldn't make it up. Except the author clearly has.

Datun · 30/08/2017 14:54

Obviously that includes many trans women, because trans women are massively over represented in tech.

This has always worried me somewhat. The way they can hack into people's details, the way they can change information online.

They are experts in how information is viewed and disseminated.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 15:19

I didn't know this.

Just started watching Sense8 on Netflix. Transwoman character does all of this (but is a goodie in the programme.) Massive stereotype then, which is a shame I guess.

Datun · 30/08/2017 16:03

doodledragon

I hadn't heard of that show. But it's by the Wachowski brothers. Both of whom make no secret of their BDSM proclivities and have both come out as transwomen.

I can't imagine they will portray trans as anything other than positive.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 16:21

Yes - I discovered that after watching a few episodes, a few things made me look up who had written it. I'm enjoying wading through it - far too much sex really, and I was rather pissed of with the way pms was represented as well as a little detail on breastfeeding (but such a minor detail.) But the trans character makes much more sense now. Though I'm not sure why they didn't bother to alter that stereotype. It's dripping with challenging stereotypes actually.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 16:22

The trans character is very angelic and heroic.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 16:23

(There are better things to watch but I wanna know what happens!)

VestalVirgin · 30/08/2017 16:41

I don't think it's just Terfs that think xx is woman and xy is a man; I'd bet the majority of men think that too.

Yeah, but men are allowed to have boundaries. Genderists are a bunch of misogynists, who are angry at women who have boundaries. That's why their most hated enemy is radical feminists and not, say, homophobic men who beat up transwomen, or something.

They don't want to admit it, but the love they have for their slur "terf" proves what they are: misogynists, plain and simple.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 16:58

Actually scrap that, it's dripping in stereotypes; Sylvester McCoy does a terrible ultra Scottish accent and apparently has to eat fried mars bars despite being a laird. Confused

Vestal, I the more I learn about them the more I make this face Confused

bookworm14 · 30/08/2017 17:04

RationalWiki is anything but, sadly. The articles on religion, the paranormal etc are pretty good, but their social/political stuff is massively biased.

BigDeskBob · 30/08/2017 17:08

Terf is just another word men give to women they don't like. There isn't a male equivalent to terf and the cotton ceiling because, as vestal says, men are allowed boundaries, women aren't. It's a pity so many women are happy to use the word against other women.

VestalVirgin · 30/08/2017 17:15

Concerning this forum, have you tried making a different account and taking transgenderism to its logical conclusion?

Only works in places where people haven't yet reached full-level insanity, but is much more amusing than trying to make them see reason by explaining things patiently.

Whenever they talk normally, like "... and the woman at the bus stop ..." or whatever, you interrupt: "How do you know what gender this stranger identifies as?"

And then accuse them of being "terfs" when they complain.

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 17:32

(Sorry to derail but I'm binge watching sense8 and an elderly gay black male character just said the line "nobody ever says it but violence has a gender".)

I don't actually know what is going on in this programme but you could play stereotype and destereotype bingo

Apologies, last on the programme!

doodledragon · 30/08/2017 17:34

Lol vestal. Sounds a fun game!