Usborne Puberty Book tells children that breasts exist to make milk and to make girls look grown up and attractive

[AssignedPerfectAtBirth]

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/29/usborne-apologises-puberty-book-childrens-publisher?CMP=share_btn_tw

Breasts are there for 1) milk 2) to make girls look grown up and attractive

Nice to know that our children are being taught that breasts are there to look at

TBF to NewDaddy I suspect the is talking about the theories espoused in Desmond Morris's "The Naked Ape" which may or may not be correct.

However, there is no need for young boys going through puberty to know this.

I'd love to know what newdaddies wife thinks of his opinions on breasts.

What's with these passive aggressive strike throughs of your snidey little comments?

You creeped me out with your comments about breasts and undressing your wife while she's asleep. And nothing you've written since has done anything but reinforce my belief that you do not view women as your equals.

"Why do you feel the need to shield them from the scientific method?"

My own future leaders are well versed in scientific method. Evopsych fairy tales of why human traits evolved have little to do with that though.

SophoclesTheFox

There are millions of women (and men) who are my equal. There are many millions more who are superior.

However, nothing you have written has led me to believe you are either.

And maybe my (PFB) dd is a little bit more capable than yours.

Wow, what a knob you are.

Disgusted at the way this extract in the book was worded, it age appropriate at all. As if boys/men need any more of a reason to justify objectifying women and girls.

*not age appropriate

How very creepy to latch on a baby (how old is this baby because you have been here for a while newdaddie) to your sleeping partner. Could you not sit with your baby and comfort them whilst your partner roused herself?

And bless. You weren't aroused! How very creepy noble.

I have to disagree with the latching on thing. It sounds like this is a mutually convenient way of doing night feeds.

MrsGWay

It doesn't to me. Maybe it was the way it was worded. Using the word undressing probably. No-one 'undresses' to feed. Just sounds creepy. Also the image, in my mind's eye doesn't sound nurturing or helpful, just a little controlling and detached in a creepy way.

It might be just a collection of things newdaddie has said. The playground insults. The conviction that he is raising his daughter to be a leader based on her playgroup behaviour. The fact that he revels in what he views as her attempts to manipulate him with hugs and cuddles (all fairly predictable PFB cliches, I agree, but damaging stereotyping nonetheless). The passive aggressive striking out of comments about other people's (imaginary) children. And the arguing for telling 8 year olds that breasts are for men.

Some men learn feminism (up to a point) in the hands of their daughters, I sincerely hope newdaddies does so in the next few years.

My DH and I both scientists, and have raised our own PFB DD accordingly, and I cannot begin to imagine that he would have ever said anything so inaccurate and disrespectful as 'Breasts are there ... to make girls look grown up and attractive'

I think it could have been worded a lot better but I understand the message they are trying to put across. There's things about both sexes that the other sex finds attractive; breasts are one of them. Most men are attracted to boobs and they are not only there to produce milk. It's nature's way of making us want to have sex, procreate and carry on the human race.

Entirely agree, datun.

The wording is pretty bloody awful, and has fallen into the same trap a lot of people do when they don't really understand the evolutionary process. In fairness, this has happened because there hasn't really been a good documentary series about it since the Naked Ape.

The fact that women have fatty breasts is not because men like them like that. Evolutionarily speaking, it is females that choose who to breed with, often based on subtle cues around the male surviving having higher than average amounts of testosterone, which causes a deleterious effect on male physiology. Because human females breed rarely, they must choose the best possible mates in order to produce the healthiest possible offspring with the best possible chance of surviving to be able to reproduce at least once.

Big boobs or otherwise has very little bearing on this.

So yes, men may well like boobs in some cultures, but that isn't why women have them.

Replace the word 'creep' with the word 'slut' and suddenly the diatribe and shaming on this thread will look very familiar.

Putting my brass neck and pa strikethroughs aside for just a moment. This thread is on a feminism board and moreover this is a parenting site. Dw & I trust each other completely and there's no shame in our parenting team. If you can't understand that then I genuinely feel sorry for you.

If you can't understand that actually breasts don't exist 'for men' then I feel sorry for your daughter.

Thanks @MrsGWay it was a revelation for us. I'd definitely recommend other parents putting it in their toolkit.

Dd was 2nd centile but otherwise healthy and we were supported by a nutritionist and a lactation consultant throughout. The lactation consultant recommended assisted latching. Dd didn't take to formula and we tried every brand of powder and ready mixed, repeatedly.

We co-slept and the daddy assisted latching happened when Dw returned to work at 4 months and lasted until dd was about 9 months. Comforting didn't work. Midnight drives didn't work. Long walks at 2am worked occasionally.

I think dw getting back into the board room actually helped a bit too and we were forced into a routine. I drive to work so we arranged for us all to meet up for lunchtime top-ups in the car and for night time I set a silent alarm on my watch and would wake dd about every 3 hours for a night feed when Dw had to get up early the next day for work. Dd is just above average height now (we are both tall) but still low on weight, but she's our skinny mini and we love her to bits lol (PFB is so apt and is still making me lol at myself, I love MN)

I might just cringe at myself in a year but right now I'm basking in the warm glow of the PFB

I'm not at all because bothered with the assistance, but "daddy assisted latching" really is making me shudder. You should perhaps rethink your wording on some things.

But I will give you a little leeway for it still being in the early days

I can't take credit for daddy assisted latching, that was the lactation consultant. Maybe I can swap daddy with daddie and get away with the plagiarism

Your LC may appreciate the feedback then

Babyfication of language put me off from a lot of potential maternal support.

Replace the word 'creep' with the word 'slut' and suddenly the diatribe and shaming on this thread will look very familiar.

Nope, completely false equivalence.

Creeps are creepy because women read them as a threat. It's the Schrodinger's rapist thing - we don't know which creeps are just a bit seedy and which will escalate to violence. We worry about creepy men because they may physically harm us.

Calling a woman a slut on the other hand - it says nothing about her behaviour towards other people. It's a term used purely to demean the woman in question. Nothing in her behaviour harms other people.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine I haven't read The naked Ape and I'm a bit too young for the documentary. I did an elective which included evolutionary physiology (not psychology) but tbh I focused my essay and main reading on the sensory homunculous.

In this context it was very apt PricklyBall. Unless I plan to go all Jack Nicholson hacking down mothers doors to latch their babies onto them.

That would be creepy.

And a very ridiculous remake of the shining. Almost as ridiculous as your argument.

The feeling of being creeped out had nothing to do with feeding the baby. It's the way you talk about women's bodies, your wife's body, the matter of fact way you refer to undressing an unconscious woman (regardless of the reason for doing so), and the way you expect congratulations for being able to restrain yourself from having sexual feelings about your wife's breasts when it's not appropriate.

And let's not "set aside" your snide little remarks. I think they're very telling. As was your little list of "people who are intelligent enough to debate", which I see I got bumped from in short order when I challenged you.