Usborne Puberty Book tells children that breasts exist to make milk and to make girls look grown up and attractive

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www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/29/usborne-apologises-puberty-book-childrens-publisher?CMP=share_btn_tw

Breasts are there for 1) milk 2) to make girls look grown up and attractive

Nice to know that our children are being taught that breasts are there to look at

NewDaddie - as already stated, I think you've got the cause and effect the wrong way round. But even if you were right - do you really think that the wording 'to make girls look grown up and attractive' was appropriate in the context of a book for boys (or girls either... I wonder what the 'sister' volume said about breasts?). Would you actually put it in those terms to a child entering puberty?

@Scrumplestiltskin I was actually born in a culture you describe, warmer climate, and it is a matriarchy . (Although due to colonisation the state is arguably patriarchal but the monarchy and peerages are matrilineal)

Ironically a lot of well meaning western scholars completely misunderstand our culture, or wilfully misunderstand it to fit their own political narrative.

Men from my culture adore breasts as do I. The major difference there is balance and decorum. I appreciate dw breasts in a sexual way but then I can also have no sexual feeling while I undress dw and latch dd on her breast for a night time feed while dw is sleeping. That is not a paradox it is decorum.

My understanding is that men from my culture view breasts (and bums and the rest of the naked female form) the same way UK men appreciate lips or eyes or other sexually attractive features that are uncovered in the UK.

Dw and I are nurturing future leaders, you can do whatever you want with your dc.

sure you are. I love a bit of PFB

What does PFB mean?

Dw and I are nurturing future leaders, you can do whatever you want with your dc

Gosh, you're going to be mighty disappointed if they turn out not to want to lead, and how do you do this?
Please start a new thread on nurturing leaders, i'm sure we'd all love to know.

You're creeping me out now, new daddie.

You're creeping me out now, new daddie.

How?

The father taking an active part in parenting part. Or the attentive husband facilitating a uninterrupted sleep for his hard working wife part?

Ok, so newdaddie has a thing about breasts.

Today 10:09 SophoclesTheFox

You're creeping me out now, new daddie.

Me too. Dress it up anyway you want newdaddie, you're giving me the cringe.

And if you're talking about evolution, believe me, The Cringe is a very highly refined evolved tool. And I trust it implicitly.

PFB is precious first born.

@gillybeanz I might make a lighthearted thread in AIBU. And we have zero doubt that dd will be a leader but in the broad sense at being the best at whatever she chooses to do.

That said however after seeing her in action at playgroup she definitely seems to have 'head of state' calibre. And at 12months old she is already a Machiavellian strategist in the way she gets around any of my firm no's with beard pulling, hugs and giggles.

That dd of mine is definitely a boss baby 😅

(Although due to colonisation the state is arguably patriarchal but the monarchy and peerages are matrilineal)

Matrilineal is not the same as matriarchal.

And I doubt your claims.

We know how women from patriarchal cultures act when talking to men, and you don't really give the impression of being a man from a matriarchal culture.

I mean, shouldn't you acknowledge that we have the ovaries of objectivity and defer to our vastly superior knowledge?

Ohhhhh.

Yeah dd is definitely a PFB lol

Yup,

When you can't attack the argument then you have to attack the person.

It's more than a bit pathetic.

I would cringe too if I were you. Thank God I'm not

I have 'attacked' the argument.

It's just your wording is a bit off. From asserting you will tell your pubescent daughter that her breasts are there for men and undressing your wife in the middle of the night to latch the baby on.

The latter, at a stretch, could just be considered in the way you subsequently explained it, but nonetheless the wording used had at least two of the women on here thinking it was creepy.

My understanding is that men from my culture view breasts (and bums and the rest of the naked female form) the same way UK men appreciate lips or eyes or other sexually attractive features that are uncovered in the UK.

Do you think they also wrote about eyes and lips 'secondary' functions of looking attractive? If not, why not?

Do you think they also wrote about eyes and lips 'secondary' functions of looking attractive? If not, why not?

Yes, eye colour has definitely been well discussed academically and journalistically but tbh I'm not sure about lips. Also I vaguely remember reading about noses in the Middle East and how prominent noses were historically selected for and how globalisation has changed that view leading to rise in plastic surgery.

It strikes me as the epitomy of a world where men are the default, for someone to say "I like breasts. Men like breasts. Therefore, women have breasts because men like them".

To me, it's much more obviously: Women have breasts to feed babies.(important full stop) That is a difference between men and women. Men have come to like them.

I believe that there is a school of thought that breasts evolved to reflect the buttocks, and the lips, the labia, once we were walking upright.

Even if this is true, is it right to introduce pubescent boys to the idea that breasts are there for them to find attractive? If it is hardwired then the boys will find that out on their own, and if it's not then you are introducing this idea that women exist to be visually attractive.

Surely given the level of male violence it is important to instill in boys that women do not just exist to give them pleasure?

Datun pubescent children are not infants. Why do you feel the need to shield them from the scientific method? Why do you not trust them to succeed regardless of our evolutionary past? Horseshoe theory applies here. I think you're closer to the patriarchy than you'd like to admit to yourself.

I plan to give dd all the information whether it's convenient or not.

Why?

I have more faith in the next generation. And maybe my (PFB) dd is a little bit more capable than yours.

HTH

And it's worth noting that men's insistence on fetishising women's breasts often have a detrimental effect on the woman and her relationship with said breasts.

Many women are sick and tired of men's eyes constantly dropping down to the chest area. Fed up with being thought a 'bit of a goer', purely because she has large breasts.

The ubiquitous 'nice tits' brand of cat calling.

Wanting to educate young people about a fulfilling and mutually respectful sex life will have the opposite effect if boys are being encouraged to objectify women in this way.

Yes, eye colour has definitely been well discussed academically and journalistically but tbh I'm not sure about lips. Also I vaguely remember reading about noses in the Middle East and how prominent noses were historically selected for and how globalisation has changed that view leading to rise in plastic surgery.

Wow. I'm amazed they would cover all that in an Usborne children's book.

I'm afraid NewDaddie has lost all scientific credibility by appearing to conflate matriarchal and matrilinear. Unless of course his post was simply badly worded.

newdaddie

Pubescent children are as young as eight years old. Of course there are a zillion things to shield them from, scientific or otherwise!

But I'm not talking about 'shielding' them from anything. I'm talking about how damaging it is to encourage both girls and boys to objectify females.

Telling boys (the book) and girls (your daughter) the breasts are there for men, is objectifying. I don't understand how you can't see this?

And maybe my (PFB) dd is a little bit more capable than yours.

And you're really not doing yourself any favours with comments like these.