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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Hospital refusing demeaning fancy dress donation

39 replies

cordeliaflynne · 22/08/2017 20:58

This feels like a good thing to me:

Ludlow Hospital refuses 'demeaning' fancy dress donation - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-41011908

The best way I can describe it is that it feels like the start of the idea that men dressing up as a women for comic effect is a bit like 'blacking up' or am I reading too much in to it?

OP posts:
Original poster
cordeliaflynne · 22/08/2017 20:59

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-41011908

OP posts:
Rosa · 22/08/2017 21:02

Sorry I disagree if an ill person can benefit from money raised in good faith then they should accept it. What about tarts and vicars parties ? Do you see Vicars protesting that they should be banned ?

Freshprincess · 22/08/2017 21:03

I'm reading that the objection is over the sexualising of nurses and insults them as healthcare professionals. The whole Carry On chasing the nurse round the ward thing.

Not that they object because its men dressed as women as such.

VestalVirgin · 22/08/2017 21:04

The best way I can describe it is that it feels like the start of the idea that men dressing up as a women for comic effect is a bit like 'blacking up' or am I reading too much in to it?

I'm going to be pessimistic and assume that they're just worried about offending the transwacktivists, who believe that dressing up as women, i.e. womanface, should only be allowed to males who claim to have feminine genderfeelz.

leighdinglady · 22/08/2017 21:09

It's disrespectful to nurses. Why did they all run round dressed as 'slutty nurses'. Nurses work bloody hard and don't get the respect they deserve. It's patronising and sexist.

CatsAreAssholes · 22/08/2017 21:15

Agree with fresh princess.

The trust had already asked them not to do it, if they accepted the money they'd have to accept it to continue

elevenclips · 22/08/2017 21:23

this takes the cake - political correctness/professionally offended outranks a cash donation for vital medical equipment

These blokes thought that them dressing in nurse dresses would give people a laugh and get them to donate. They were right. nothing at all to dowith demeaning nurses. The person refusing the donation is reading all sorts of rubbish into this scenario that just isn't there.

My local hospital gets money from people dressing up all the time, it's a common way to raise money. As for comparing this to blacking up, again this is just made up nonsense. These people did a funny thing to raise money. That's all. Complete over thinking and over analysing and making up rubbish to suggest otherwise.

DeleteOrDecay · 22/08/2017 21:31

Why is it funny? I don't get it. What is so 'funny' about men dressing as women?

Original poster
cordeliaflynne · 22/08/2017 21:36

Exactly, DeleteOrDecay. We should be moving on from it being automatically funny to see a man in dress, aping 'feminine' mannerisms.

OP posts:
DJBaggySmalls · 22/08/2017 21:41

Nurses and WPC's have been complaining about things like this (and strippers) for decades.

MrsDustyBusty · 22/08/2017 22:18

Sorry I disagree if an ill person can benefit from money raised in good faith then they should accept it.

A slutty nurse uniform donated to a hospital in good faith. Yeah it is.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/08/2017 22:43

Why is it funny? I don't get it. What is so 'funny' about men dressing as women?

It isn't.

The trust had already asked them not to do it, if they accepted the money they'd have to accept it to continue

The fact the trust gave them prior notice is the clincher. They could have used superhero costumes or animal costumes or a pantomime horse or zombies, all of which would still have been dressing up and personally I think would have been funnier.

nocoolnamesleft · 23/08/2017 01:52

Well, based on the picture, the trust is probably seriously unhappy about breaches in uniform policy. Those skirt lengths would definitely lead to the sister in charge having words. Hair/wigs that long need to be tied back, classically in a manner involving it not touching the collar. The footwear is not, by any stretch of the imagination, the usual plain black shoe. Visible underwear on display might be considered unprofessional. Oh, and it's generations since those hats would have been worn...and when they were, they were expected to be much neater, and better secured than that.

Scruffy bunch.

SophoclesTheFox · 23/08/2017 06:02

+1 to the "why is it funny?"

Because whether you understand it consciously or not, men dressing as women is funny because it's them lowering themselves to the status of silly, frivolous, slutty women. And that's funny because men are important and serious! But women have silly funny boobs and hair and cake themselves in makeup! And are ridiculous! And nurses are slutty! hahahahaha!

Hmm

We don't live in the 80s any more, thank goodness, and carry on jokes about what's under nurse's uniforms aren't clever or funny and need to go the same way as all other Benny Hill stereotypes like that. The trust were right.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 23/08/2017 06:19

pantomime horse

This one has my vote. Pantomime horses are brilliant.

Or, to be modern, one of those inflatable T-Rex costumes that seem to be in half the youtube videos at the moment.

Actually funny, rather than in poor taste.

NewBrian · 23/08/2017 06:27

Some people on here really do like to get affronted at fuck all.

SophoclesTheFox · 23/08/2017 08:35

Who's "affronted", Brian? I'm not. Is it you?

deydododatdodontdeydo · 23/08/2017 08:53

Because whether you understand it consciously or not, men dressing as women is funny because it's them lowering themselves to the status of silly, frivolous, slutty women.

That's often said on here, but I don't think that's the reason.
It's because they look ridiculous, not because they look like women, but because they don't look like women! One even has a full beard.
That said, I don't find it funny, or acceptable.

SophoclesTheFox · 23/08/2017 09:23

Right, it's because they look ridiculous, I agree.

But...Why do we think they look ridiculous? What signifiers are they messing with? Why is the combo of boobs & beard supposed to be comical?

Woman with long hair and makeup in a man's suit: not funny. Possibly sexy?

Man with a beard in a woman's dress: comical.

Why? Because women aren't funny? Because she's claiming status by dressing as a man and he's sacrificing it by dressing as a woman?

If not that, then what do you think is happening when we laugh at men in womanface? I don't want to labour this point too much, because it'll get dull and a dozen people will roll in and tell me I'm overthinking it, but if my interpretation is wrong, it'd be great if someone could explain why, without saying "oh, it just is".

deydododatdodontdeydo · 23/08/2017 09:53

I think what you are saying does happen, but that's not why people find humour in this.
(I'm musing here). A woman dressing as a man. Why isn't this ridiculous? Because surely if a low status woman is pretending to be a high status man, that's laughable, yes? But people don't find it to be so.
Is it because men's clothes are kind of unisex anyway? Men's clothes don't show off their anatomical features that women don't have e.g. boobs/cleavage. Maybe a woman in a posing pouch would be ridiculous, but they're not in fashion for men at the moment.
So a clean shaven female shape in men's clothing is something we see all the time, nothing incongruous.
Whereas a stubbly, broad shouldered hairy legged male shape in women's clothing is unusual. The bigger and hairier they are the more ridiculous it looks.

I don't like it because it's "sexy" male fantasy clothing, though.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/08/2017 10:05

I agree deydo

A woman dressing as a man in the way say of Keeley Hawes in Tipping the Velvet- not ridiculous. French and Saunders' old men characters - ridiculous

Littlepond · 23/08/2017 10:07

I think the fact that they have been asked not to do it is the clincher here. It stinks of men knowing better and money equalling power. They'd been asked by the hospital not to do it. They decided they knew better and over rode that request and did it anyway, surmising that the fact they were giving money meant they had more power and control than the hospital trust.

It is right, therefore that the hospital trust retain the authority in this situation and refuse the money. I don't think this is just about men dressed as women, or men being nurses (though that is what I find the most offensive, that men dressed as nurses is 'hilarious' - like there aren't any actual male nurses out there) but also about arrogance and the notion that Money Wins.

I think the whole thing is distasteful and offensive, there are many other ways to raise money.

A shame that such a big sum can't be used but accepting it would have put the hospital on the back foot and admitting they have no authority ( or intention, maybe) to stop demeaning and offensive practise as long as there is money involved. It's a slippery slope IMO...

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/08/2017 13:55

I don't want to labour this point too much, because it'll get dull and a dozen people will roll in and tell me I'm overthinking it, but if my interpretation is wrong, it'd be great if someone could explain why, without saying "oh, it just is"

I agree with deydo. They look ridiculous because there is no thinking required , no effort made.

One can argue this is wrong because:-

  1. The trust asked them not to but they went ahead anyway.
  2. The humour is founded on an outdated, sexist and pornified idea of "sexy nurses" 3. In any case many nusres are male.

Depends on whether you want to be right in your feminist analysis or to persuade as many people as you can this is no longer acceptable.

DeleteOrDecay · 23/08/2017 14:24

That's a point, there are many male nurses these days. Why didn't these men just dress in a male nurse uniform? Instead of cheap nasty, nurse uniform knock offs from LoveHoney.

I guess it just wouldn't have the same 'comedic' value. Wonder why that is.

Xenophile · 23/08/2017 15:26

Brian dear, no one here is "affronted" and given that you don't post on here, I wonder why you think you're the expert on how we feel?

If they wanted to dress up as members of a graduate profession, then they should have dressed up as male nurses. They didn't. They wanted to continue the boring old trope of "slutty nurses" from the 70's. I wonder how many times the belief that nurses are slutty bodies in awful uniforms has given a certain type of man the idea that they're ok to target? I know it happened when I trained 1,000 years ago.