Sexist M&S toilet signs

[OlennasWimple]

Small victory reported here although the complaints seem to have focused on the child with the woman on the sign, rather than the fact she is wearing a pink dress. (Though fortunately it wasn't THE pink M&S dress...)

How well recognised are the female/male symbols - the plus and the arrow? Do they ever get used for signage?

They occasionally get used. I think they are a terrible idea. Worse than XX and XY. I have to stop and think about which is which.

This isn't so much a small victory as a microscopic one.

Given the explanation for the symbols I'm surprised you are considering them as an alternative.

The two standard sex symbols are the Mars symbol ♂ (often considered to represent a shield and spear) for male and Venus symbol ♀ (often considered to represent a bronze mirror with a handle) for female, derived from astrological symbols, denoting the classical planets Mars and Venus, respectively

Pringle I think the days are long gone when women were ashamed of their periods etc. Men know about all that and are used to seeing women putting on their makeup.

Times have moved on, all this segregation is tiresome. It's the last taboo really. Time it went.

It would sort out the problem people have with safety of young boys going in male only toilets and the baby change thing.

The only change that would be required would be removal of urinals. I don't think anyone would object to that, after all I've never seen one in a private home.

Men's toilets stink - why would we give up nice clean smelling toilets in favour of hell holes?

Why? Just No!!

My only issue is I'd grump assuming I had to do nappy duty to find out there's no baby change. Get the child off the door.
People understand symbols.
Lots of women wear dresses and we all understand it isn't compulsory

THAT pink dress is now in the sale section so perhaps its a promotional thing

I didn't know the explanation behind♂ and ♀ but will now remember which is which by the (sexist) trope that ♀ represents a bronze mirror with a handle.

Green tulips, I think it's the urinals that cause the stink.

I really do think getting rid of them would solve many issues people have about public toilets.

last weekend I took my gd into a male/female/family toilet and the seat was totally splattered with urine....male pattern splatter i hate this...so unsanitary. the little soul hopped up and put her hands right into this before i could unravel the toilet paper and clean up :(

If I still had small children and was purely going on signs I might assume that children are not allowed in the men's loos at M&S. Might be an issue if it was dh doing the shopping (not that unlikely as he was a SAHD when our children were small). Presumably that's not what M&S meant, although who knows . The pink dress/blue tie thing is irritating, but not particularly unusual.

I don't believe that the male female signs were intended to be a hand mirror vs a shield and spear (as what does the signs for Mercury, Saturn or Jupiter meant to convey?). However choosing the symbol for Mars (war) for male and the symbol for Venus (love) for women was obviously based on sexist associations.

bytesizebio.net/2012/03/08/the-origin-of-gender-symbols-in-biology/

Out, I find totally trashed toilets in the women only ones. I often have to peer into a couple of stalls before I find one that meets my standards!

I think you find dirty blighters across the spectrum it's not just men. This is why a good business has staff check and clean the toilets on a regular basis, I'm just pleased I don't have to live with the messy individuals.

Bearing in mind that people learn new things all the time, I'm pretty sure that it would take about 5 seconds for an averagely intelligent person to learn XX and XY (or any other non-stereotyping symbols).
There could even be a brief period where the old & new symbols were used alongside each other, to help out people unable to learn something new.
And if there's anyone with a different set of chromosomes, I'm sure they've already overcome many challenges, including deciding which toilets are the best ones for them.

Why on earth would anyone have a problem with symbols that helped to get rid of out-dated stereotypes?

If I still had small children and was purely going on signs I might assume that children are not allowed in the men's loos at M&S

Or that children of both sexes are free to use the female toilets.

I don't believe that the male female signs were intended to be a hand mirror vs a shield and spear

Take it up with Wikipedia and Google then. It doesn't much matter what you believe if it is so engrained to be that belief and as you say choosing the symbols for Mars and Venus aren't much better.

The symbol for Mercury is his winged sandals and helmet, Jupiter his thunderbolt and Saturn a sickle - all items attributed to these deities.

Out, I find totally trashed toilets in the women only ones.

Yep, was a bit at an earlier poster saying women's toilets were all sweet smelling. Although I do think men's toilets are usually worse.
Then again, I think the urinals are better for men. I don't think WCs are designed for men to pee into, judging by how difficult it is to avoid hitting the top.

Green tulips, I think it's the urinals that cause the stink

Urinals are self flushing -

I didn't say they were less trashed - it the smell a lot better

Which is fine if you are a mum with a child Lass, but not very helpful if you are a dad with a small child as in general parents of toddlers and pre school children aren't going to send them in on their own. If the loos aren't together it's probably not a big deal as children don't generally feature on toilet signs, but if they are then the implication is very strong that children belong with female carers only. Although as the article states that neither the male nor the female toilets had babychanging facilities perhaps there was a family room too (although in which case why have the child picture on the ladies loo). It seems a very odd design choice really.

♂ and ♀ are not universally understood either, as I have found out to my cost at work.

Again - whatever system people choose to use, it could very quickly and easily be learnt. It could be F and M or XX or any symbols. Given that most 5 year olds can learn the alphabet, I think it fairly obvious that people could learn a couple of new symbols - particularly if the old & new symbols were used together for a while.

And it's amazing how flexible people can be. I'm staying in a beach area atm, and the toilet signs abound with "buoys" and "gulls". Amazingly, I'm intelligent enough to work out which one I should use.

Pringle I think the days are long gone when women were ashamed of their periods etc. Men know about all that and are used to seeing women putting on their makeup.

Well i'm certainly not used to strange men watching me do my makeup, and don't appreciate being watched by men as I bend over the sink to look in the mirror, which has happened to me before in unisex toilets. Doing your makeup, adjusting your tights, looking in the mirror, changing a pad or tampon are all vulnerable moments for women. Nothing to do with "being ashamed of periods" or whatever.

I won't use unisex toilets, I leave and find segregated ones.

This is much more appropriate.

The complaint was regarding the child symbol being added to the womens toilets and not the mens.
It had nothing to do with the male or female signs or graphics.

Take it up with Wikipedia and Google then. It doesn't much matter what you believe if it is so engrained to be that belief and as you say choosing the symbols for Mars and Venus aren't much better

It says "Citation needed" on wiki! It's just someones opinion with no referencing.

I don't mind unisex toilets when they are individual cubicles with sinks and mirrors inside and a generally good design.

I do mind sharing sinks and mirrors with men in a communal area near the toilets.

Toilets in Irish pubs in the UK used to cause confusion.

Mná - ladies

Fir - gents

There are international symbols for the male and female sex. These should be used.