Sexist M&S toilet signs

[OlennasWimple]

Small victory reported here although the complaints seem to have focused on the child with the woman on the sign, rather than the fact she is wearing a pink dress. (Though fortunately it wasn't THE pink M&S dress...)

Unfortunately, nearly all toilets and changing rooms, et cetera, have this person in a dress=woman symbolism.

It is high time to change that, seeing as people are getting increasingly confused about what those spaces are meant to separate; the sexes, or just people wearing dresses from people who wear trousers. (i.e. gender identity)

The only argument in favour of the dress symbol is that little children and foreigners would not understand written words.

I am in favour of changing it to XX for women and XY for men. Easy for children to learn, and internationally known by everyone with a decent education.

(The symbols are not universal anyway; I always wondered what they do in Scotland. Joke aside, the countries where men wear dress-like garments in everyday life probably have other signs .. or perhaps no public toilets for women at all. )

I'm educated all the way up and weirdly enough I had to look up the XX/XY thing only yesterday as I'd forgotten - so there's no way your average person knows this.

Added to which with all the bloody gender stuff you'd get people going in claiming they were XX males etc

I've just asked DH and he's got one more masters than me and he got it the wrong way round

It's sexist in several ways, which is quite an achievement for a door sign. The assumption that women will have children with them and men not, the colour choice, the flowery dress... I wonder what they will change it to?

This one?

I dont get why its sexist or a victory given that its the clearest graphic understood by the majority of people. Including people who cant read, or cant read English.

The women's sign is in pink, with flowers on the dress, and she's holding a child's hand... when there's baby changing in both toilets, and the men's sign (blue wearing a tie) doesn't feature a child... I wouldn't care much at all if it was the usual black simple image of a dress-wearing woman versus trouser-wearing man but they added all those unnecessary extra features, which is the issue. Not the basic graphic itself.

it's not flowers on the dress it's XXXX and the child is holding a teddy bear not the woman's hand.
if there is a change table in the men's washroom the child
/teddy should be positioned on the signage as well.
I wouldn't consider this a victory more a waste of time and money.

How can anyone get worked up over this shit! tackle actual sexism that causes people hurt not a bloody toilet sign!

I interpreted that as symbolic flowers, and it doesn't matter that they're not actually holding hands! The child is only pictured with the woman even though there is baby changing in both and a separate baby changing area as well.

Whoever decided on this was having a thoughtless day, imo. It won't cost M&S a huge amount to put up some more appropriate signage in the grand scheme of things. Not a massive deal, but easily fixed too.

From small acorns, Threenme.

No one is "worked up" apart from you @Threenme. And you're making the false assumption that people aren't also tackling much more serious issues whilst simultaneously being slightly irked by daft signs.

so a pink dress is inappropriate or insulting or demeaning?
otherwise it's the male bathroom sign with the missing change area that needs fixing not the female sign at all.

The design was also condemned by Sussex Police hate crime ambassador Sergeant Peter Allan, who wrote on the Facebook thread: "This should not be happening in 2017."

I do think he might have more pressing cases of hate crime to deal with than a mildly ill thought out Marks & Sparks' door sign.

I wouldn't care much at all if it was the usual black simple image of a dress-wearing woman versus trouser-wearing man but they added all those unnecessary extra features, which is the issue. Not the basic graphic itself

But if you accept using the black graphic of a dress and trousers which , regardless of whether you are one of those women who never wears dresses, is the clearest symbol, why not colour them and brighten them up? Ok I suppose they could have opted for colours other than pink and blue but if the aim is to make it as clear as possible sticking with pink and blue does that.

Adding the child was unnecessary.

I am in favour of changing it to XX for women and XY for men. Easy for children to learn, and internationally known by everyone with a decent education

And tough luck for anyone who hasn't presumably?

I'm not wild about the dress/trousers standard signage, but it is widely understood, so I can see why it persists. Colour the signs to match their general colour scheme, no problems. Don't see why the tired old pink/blue trope is the way to do that, and the flowers/tie thing is just a weird addition.

XX and XY wouldn't encompass those with XXY or XYY chromosomes. More problematic than a pink dress.

How well recognised are the female/male symbols - the plus and the arrow? Do they ever get used for signage?

Seriously?! Of course this isn't sexist, just easily understood symbols.

This is exactly what gives feminism a bad name...

I find all this upset about toilet signage silly.

I think the way forward is to have toilets that anyone can use.

Get rid of the urinals/ group peeing and there is no problem.

I'm not offended by this sign, but if there aren't any baby changing facilities in the ladies' toilets, then it's misleading and should be changed on that basis. Not because a pink dress makes me feel demeaned.

I quite like wearing pink dresses.

Don't see why the tired old pink/blue trope is the way to do that, and the flowers/tie thing is just a weird addition

Because it is so well known and therefore unambiguous?

I'm really not getting what you think is so weird over the addition of a tie and flowers.

What would you suggest in place of the dress / trousers signage? Bearing in mind the criteria should be as , DJ said , the clearest graphic understood by the majority of people. Including people who cant read, or can't read English. I can't think of one.

internationally known by everyone with a decent education

. I've had a decent education and wouldn't know which was which without looking it up then instantly forgetting it.

mantlepiece Ugh, no thank you. I do not want to be in a toilet cubicle with the obvious sound of a pad being opened and/or the sanitary bin making a clunking noise as I throw stuff in it when there is a man in the cubicle next to me. Bad enough other women hear that. I also don't want a man in the same toilet area when I'm reapplying my makeup or styling my hair. No, no. Women's toilets are sacred.

I actively avoid places with unisex toilets. I don't like them.

Where is the upset? I must have missed that. I thought this was a gentle discussion about a very minor thing?