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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm just going to squat here for a wee while, that ok?

71 replies

DamnSummerCold · 05/08/2017 20:36

Seriously WTF is going on here at the moment?

I settled down with a drink to spend a few minutes (hours) reading MN. At least half if not more threads have contained the most amazing sexist bullshit!!! And while normally they'd be crushed within a few comments and ignored the amount of agreeing is shocking.

There's one in relationships where the OPs partner is blaming her for his delayed organism, while several posters have blamed 'death grip' & porn, they've been dismissed. she's been advised to research different positions...and to watch porn with him and incorporate it in to their sex life. And what's wrong with porn anyway???WTF?

One where a single woman arrived home to find a strange workman in her private garden,(having climbed over a locked gate) asked him to leave, no the (male) neighbour gave him permission. She pointed out he couldnt do that, asked him to leave again, No, so she told him to get the fuck out.
The amount of posters telling she was aggressive, should have made him tea blah blah was scary.
Admittedly there was some cracking posters going WTF and being very eloquent But really??
6 months ago people would be advising 101. And saying she was silly to confront him, now she should be making tea…

There's a few others with the Oh that's men for you, and 2 obvious shitstirers dropping their pearls of manly wisdoms over various threads…

Has there been a smarter than usual MRA invasion??

This feels like the only place of sanity…

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/08/2017 09:39

Because it's not about the baby, it's about controlling women's bodies

Yes all that research into the harm caused by smoking including higher incidence of SIDS is just about controlling women.

Birdchangedname · 08/08/2017 11:46

Saying a person shouldn't do something because it is harmful to others isn't controlling. Again drink driving. You might as well argue that it OK sometimes for people to do this, because of their education/oppression or circumstances, and that is controlling to stop them. it is after all their body and no one has the right to tell them what to do with it. Hmm

Birdchangedname · 08/08/2017 11:50

I understand that if you know someone whose circumstances led to to conclude that smoking wasn't the biggest bear in the room, that you might disagree. but that would be like me bringing an example of a pissed up mum rushing her kid to hospital in her car, and everything being fine on that occasion, as a reason why for me drink driving isn't all bad.

lookatmeimsandrabee · 08/08/2017 12:10

Since splitting with ex my children have been trying to get us back together. When I try and explain his behaviour they are disbelieving because I had stayed with him so long. Both my sons are acting like it is my fault and my daughter is trying to be understanding but they have been educated by my previous behaviour of being a door mat. The new me confuse them. I would say none of my children are stupid but have been socialised to believe the story they are fed. If my own children have that sort of issue it will be hard work to change their opinion and unfortunately I can only see the same for the broader picture. Children are often conditioned by their own family structure at the sub conscious level so changing the belief will be hard work. Hopefully generational changes might change things in the long term but I doubt it will happen in my life time.

AssassinatedBeauty · 08/08/2017 12:54

The smoking issue hangs on whether you think a foetus/baby in utero is a fully existing person, equal to a born baby/child/human. Smoking whilst pregnant harms that person, so it should be controlled.

Although having said that, smoking around babies/children harms them, and it's not yet banned in people's homes. Why then should pregnant women be subject to additional controls that other people are not?

Gonegonegone · 08/08/2017 15:53

I can think smoking in pregnancy is selfish and stupid and still defend a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

Same way I can hate that significantly more female fetuses are aborted than male but I would still allways support a woman's right to abortion, no matter the reason behind it.

Addictions are mental health issues and not all pregnancies are chosen or wanted.

PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 19:04

It's really strange how whenever smoking comes up, otherwise decent, principled, thoughtful people seem to lose their critical thinking skills.

NOBODY is saying smoking in pregnancy is ok. Can we not just accept that everybody here believes this and move on?

The starting point should be that women have control over their own bodies. We fight so hard for contraception and abortion rights, so hard against rape, forced marriage, FGM ... If we don't have control over our own bodies we have nothing.

I think some of you could benefit from actually reading the link I posted earlier:

The report pays particular attention to the impact of the ‘chemical endangerment’ law in Alabama, the state that has carried out the most prosecutions against pregnant women; and Tennessee’s ‘fetal assault’ law, which between 2014 and 2016 made it a crime to give birth to a child showing symptoms of drug exposure.

However, most states have some sort of ‘fetal assault’ law in place, and the trend is growing. In the 2017 legislative session, states introduced more than 300 measures to restrict sexual and reproductive rights, emblematic of a dangerous and ongoing assault on women’s rights which has escalated during the first 100 days of the Trump administration.

One woman told Amnesty International how she was charged under Alabama’s ‘chemical endangerment’ law upon suspicion of using drugs, despite being unaware she was pregnant. Another described how the threat of punishment had deterred her from seeking healthcare:

“In my town, I was worried about going to the doctor because if you test positive [for drugs], bam, you’re slapped with a ‘chemical endangerment’ charge.”

In Tennessee, one woman told Amnesty International how she had given birth on the side of the road trying to avoid going to a hospital, where she feared prosecution under the ‘fetal assault’ law.

Although the ‘fetal assault’ law in Tennessee ended in 2016, it is still in the state code and is likely to be introduced again.

The same woman described how she subsequently spent months trying to find drug dependence treatment, but was unable to find any available services that would accept her insurance. Treatment costs are greater than US$4500 per year in Tennessee.

Amnesty International has highlighted how this narrow focus on punishment, in the absence of increased funding or provisions to expand drug treatment services, means these laws are failing in their stated aim of promoting healthy pregnancies. They are also violating women’s rights to health, privacy, equality and non-discrimination.

Around the world, our rights over our bodies and reproduction are being rapidly eroded. We need to be resisting this completely and at the same time doing what we can to improve the health of pregnant women, mothers and their children. That won't be achieved by criminalisation, judgment or stigma.

PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 19:15

lookatmeimsandrabee that sounds so tough. This is nothing like you've gone through but I remember it used to break my heart when DS raved about his superhuman (absent) dad who could lift up buildings and rescue the whole world. The truth was he was a total waste of air who never bothered seeing him and in 18 years bought 3 birthday cards and 2 packs of nappies. DS did work it out in the end, which was very painful to watch.

Hopefully in years to come your children will see you as a brilliant role model because you've got out, found your strength and created a whole new life for yourself and for them Flowers

PricklyBall · 08/08/2017 19:25

Sandra - another one saying that's shit, but your kids probably will work it out in the end. (My dad, whose dad did a runner when he was 7, always says the best thing his father ever did was to have the decency to get out of his life and stay the fuck out of it rather than pretending to be a dad - I have been brought up with very little time for the "any father is better than none" shit that sometimes gets spouted on other bits of MN).

YetAnotherSpartacus · 10/08/2017 15:22

Oh goddess forget smoking and see the thread on chat now on how the woman in the jogger attack on Putney Bridge asked for it by sticking her leg out ...

BasketOfDeplorables · 10/08/2017 15:48

No man would be violent to a woman. She must have provoked him!

Xenophile · 10/08/2017 17:52

Similarly, threads in which rape victims are told that they have a moral obligation to report, or else be responsible for any further crimes the man who raped them commits.

Yes. This idea that women are responsible for the continued potential criminality of men comes from the same place as all victim blaming shit. If you didn't or couldn't report, you are not in any way responsible for any subsequent crimes that that person commits. At all.

TitaniasCloset · 10/08/2017 23:04

Things are getting worse for women. From the trans issue to the abuse on social media and the government cutting benefits and money for mental health and domestic violence services. The amount of thick as shit handmaidens has definitely increased too. It's all for very complex reasons, like women getting fed up with society and joining the alt right etc but things have definitely gone backwards.

So far as the smoking thing goes, first I never smoked or drank while pregnant, but this is about addiction and the most vulnerable and most mentally ill women do tend to have the most addictions and smoke the most. We don't need it to be made illegal, we don't need any more bloody laws controlling us. As a society we are throwing our freedoms away and our rights for the sake of a few people or situations we don't like. It's nuts. Freedom of speech will be next on the list.

I find some of the middle class mums on Mumsnet are just clueless about how bad some peoples lives can be and how limited their options are. It doesn't fit their narrative.

BasketOfDeplorables · 10/08/2017 23:07

Is anyone here actually advocating for it to be illegal, though? I may have missed it, but I thought everyone was basically saying that it was wrong, but shouldn't be criminalised.

TitaniasCloset · 10/08/2017 23:07

Oh sorry didn't finish that, I'm very much addicted to alcohol and cigarettes now and have a serious mental health condition and I'm furious that it has been banned completely on psych wards. That is the wrong time to take someone fags away from them, especially if they are refraining from their other addictions whilst there.

But the local all women lovely psych ward I used to go to has been closed now anyway, so I best just try to stay well.

TitaniasCloset · 10/08/2017 23:59

Anyway my comments are not really making sense, having a bad day today so I came here too just for the common sense.

Datun · 11/08/2017 01:02

TitaniasCloset

I hope tomorrow is a better day.
Flowers

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 11/08/2017 01:21

You are making sense Titania on this and other threads.

MrsTerryPratchett · 11/08/2017 01:29

One of the first posts on the other thread included 'it should be illegal'. Not this one, but that opinion is very mainstream.

TitaniasCloset · 11/08/2017 01:29

Thanks, both of you Smile

BasketOfDeplorables · 11/08/2017 07:07

Ah, thanks Terry.

You make perfect sense Titania.

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