I'm just going to squat here for a wee while, that ok?

[DamnSummerCold]

Seriously WTF is going on here at the moment?

I settled down with a drink to spend a few minutes (hours) reading MN. At least half if not more threads have contained the most amazing sexist bullshit!!! And while normally they'd be crushed within a few comments and ignored the amount of agreeing is shocking.

There's one in relationships where the OPs partner is blaming her for his delayed organism, while several posters have blamed 'death grip' & porn, they've been dismissed. she's been advised to research different positions...and to watch porn with him and incorporate it in to their sex life. And what's wrong with porn anyway???WTF?

One where a single woman arrived home to find a strange workman in her private garden,(having climbed over a locked gate) asked him to leave, no the (male) neighbour gave him permission. She pointed out he couldnt do that, asked him to leave again, No, so she told him to get the fuck out.
The amount of posters telling she was aggressive, should have made him tea blah blah was scary.
Admittedly there was some cracking posters going WTF and being very eloquent But really??
6 months ago people would be advising 101. And saying she was silly to confront him, now she should be making tea…

There's a few others with the Oh that's men for you, and 2 obvious shitstirers dropping their pearls of manly wisdoms over various threads…

Has there been a smarter than usual MRA invasion??

This feels like the only place of sanity…

No, I've got a sense of more hand-maidenry going on over the last year or so, it's not just you. Depressing isn't it?

Totally hear you, it isn't just on MN, in real life I have been agog at some chat from female friends. Really

It seems a lot more women are happy to accept the "system" and just circumvent to get the best out of it. Know their place, but are in a protective denial about their positioning. Accepting way too much IMHO.

I would like to think that it is stealthy MRAs, because that would be less depressing. But I don't think it is.

Completely read the title as you were going to squat down to have a wee...... thought it might be some debate about sexist attitudes towards public urination

Completely read the title as you were going to squat down to have a wee

Oh god, so did I - I have now re-read in a scottish accent it's all much better.

I think I see FWR readers out on the main boards more than I used to - injecting the occasional 'no, hang on there a moment' kind of posts.

Urgh, I swing by to ask similar. Horrified by the almost overwhelmingly uniform response to women smoking while pg is that once they are with child they have zero right to bodily autonomy. Fucking feeeeeuming at that one. Whatever your position on smoking, on about 5 pages there's maybe one or two posts where people say hang on a minute, it's her body, she has ultimate say over what she does to it.

I don't think smoking whilst pregnant is a feminist issue, body autonomy is one thing, but you can't possibly expect applause for your life choices if you smoke knowing what it can\will do to your baby. That's a being a div issue.

YY I think things have been going backwards in the last few years in RL too.
It used to be 'everyone' I knew was a feminist, now it's like some kind of niche interest....as in 'oh that camomila, she's such a feminist' (eye roll)

I'm off to make a cup of tea in my 'smash the patriarchy' mug.

I don't think smoking whilst pregnant is a feminist issue, body autonomy is one thing, but you can't possibly expect applause for your life choices if you smoke knowing what it can\will do to your baby.

I think smoking while pregnant is a very shitty choice, but I will fight to death for a woman's right to make that shitty choice.

I would like to self-righteously disapprove of women who smoke while pregnant - but I want to do so in a world where everyone is well aware and acknowledges that preventing a woman from smoking while pregnant would be monstrous and a human rights violation.
(Unless that is, smoking is made illegal for everyone, everywhere, all the time. That'd be okay, too)

It is very much a feminist issue. As a feminist, as I said, I will defend any pregnant woman's right to do what any other adult human being is allowed to do. Because bodily autonomy.

I would like for it not to be a feminist issue, but sadly, it is. Because governments can, and do police what women are allowed to do while pregnant.

Whatever your position on smoking, on about 5 pages there's maybe one or two posts where people say hang on a minute, it's her body, she has ultimate say over what she does to it

I have to part company on this. There is overwhelming evidence smoking and drinking causes harm to a foetus.

I'm not sure exactly how it would be feasible to enforce but it is enormously stupid and selfish thing to do. You can talk about bodily autonomy all you like but a pregnant woman is poisoning the foetus. I really don't care if said pregnant doesn't like hearing that.

I think a woman's right to do what she wants with her own body trumps the rights of a foetus.

Smoking when you are pregnant is clearly stupid. Smoking in general is stupid. However I am pro choice regarding abortion, so how can I say "you can't harm your baby with smoke but you can kill it if you want."

Your body, your choice.

I was one of the people staffing the barricades on that thread. Not because I believe that smoking during pregnancy is a fabulous idea. But because people seem to be incapable of separating 'that's a silly idea' from 'let's all make it illegal for women to make their own decisions'. That's the patriarchy's fault.

And the women I know who smoked during pregnancy had all given up worse and were very vulnerable and trying hard.

God yeah it's awful. Waded my way through a thread of posters calling a woman who is a bit needy and with clearly no self confidence an attention seeker, a bitch, a cunt etc. What alternate universe is this?

Spurred me on to write something about problematic women and how the worst thing a woman can do is be an attention seeker with mh issues.

One a couple of weeks ago was about a woman who wet herself after "DH" wouldnt let her in the bathroom becsuse he was brushing his teeth. The overwhelming consensus was she was being unreasonable as he had made his rule clear and she should go the the doctors about her bladder.

I haven't seen those threads, but in rl I've had women telling me that they're as feminist as the next person, but the poor men just can't be expected to stay at home and help look after kids, it's so much harder for them.

There was a slightly more interesting thought that feminism hasmade things worse because now we're all doing the wifework plus paid jobs, but the owner does not want to discuss it at all. Try and she gets nardy about how she isn't brainwashed thanks, and poor men are the real victims of male violence.

It's all quite alarming. I have no wish to be dragged back, or my dd in the future, into being a handmaiden just because independent critical thinking is such an alien activity to some. As male violence and entitlement to women's bodies increases again perhaps things will change, but in the meantime those of us who don't like that are going to have a tough time of it. The UK as a whole is going to hell in a handcart for this dislike of thought.

I've not been around for years so probably couldn't tell you about changes on MN. In RL, however I've been shocked at some genuinely misogynistic comments from various women I know. It's only come to my attention since having a baby, so I don't know if it's a shift as the topics just didn't come up before.

The reason I don't think smoking when pregnant is a feminist issue, is because doing something which causes others harm is wrong regardless of your sex. I can't say, that anyone has the right to do what they want with their body regardless of the consequences on others. You could argue that folk have a right too drink and drive, because it is their body. Or go mountaineering in the snow knowing someone else has to risk their life to save you. Note only one of these examples is illegal but booth selfish.

Women own their bodies yes, but they don't own their children's bodies. Once the agreed date has passed where the child is considered an individual, the mum is a div if she chooses to smoke/take drugs etc and harm her child.

'The UK as a whole is going to hell in a handcart for this dislike of thought.'

That's a desperately depressing thought but I have to admit that I agree with you. The levels of stupidity around are quite staggering. Basic thinking seems to be beyond many people.

I agree Bird. I would defend a person's right to an abortion which causes little or no suffering to the foetus, but smoking while pregnant can cause health issues for the rest of a child's life. I don't defend anyone's right to damage another person's body for the sake of their own bodily autonomy.

And no there's nothing anyone can or should do to stop it but doesn't mean I'd defend people's right to do it.

Thank Fuck I was beginning to think it was just me!

It's the whole man hating thing that gets me; I tend to find threads in here are the ones furthest from man hating, most posters on this section don't assume that men are really just big children who need managing and that its a woman place to run after and sort for them.

The amount of threads where the OP can't' leave the children with thier father as he's (1 never looked after all of them before (2 it's far too stressful for him, but she can manage it every day. Or the other one; men don't see dirt/untidiness etc.

I'm not saying I'm perfect; I still find myself doing more than my 50% of housework, but I refuse to do any gardening

Of course I don't think smoking while pregnant is a great idea. But do I think that a woman is more than just a host while she's pregnant, and she should still have final say over what she does to her body.

No one approves of smoking while pregnant. But some people have experience of working with vulnerable women and know what their lives are really like.
I'm sick of seeing comments from people who just don't get how bad life is for many women. Women who dont realise you can have menstrual bleeding so severe that your clothes can be flooded in a few minutes. Or that leaving safely isnt a matter of walking out the front door and into a nice shelter.
We dont all lead nice safe healthy lives. Women help women because no one else is doing it.

The UK as a whole is going to hell in a handcart for this dislike of thought
Sadly I agree...don't think it's the UK alone, either.

I was one of the people staffing the barricades on that thread

What struck me the most was that not many took up the core issue that the OP was distressed and hurting - even she recognised that she was being unreasonable re the smoking. I couldn't frame what I wanted to say but it was more along the lines of 'Stop thinking about them OP, why don't you post in the appropriate place to get the support you need'.

The toilet thread drove me nuts. Poor woman. Scary thing is that despite this this is the most feminist place I know - everywhere else looks like whatever the dystopia in Handmaid's Tale was called.

I agree Bird. I would defend a person's right to an abortion which causes little or no suffering to the foetus, but smoking while pregnant can cause health issues for the rest of a child's life. I don't defend anyone's right to damage another person's body for the sake of their own bodily autonomy

I agree. The only women I know who continued to smoke heavily throughout pregnancy were a teacher and a legal secretary, both in long term committed relationships- not vulnerable.

It is often said on here that trans women lack the wonderful ability to grow another human being. If women want to be treated as grown ups perhaps taking responsibility for their actions might come into it. I'm struggling to extend bodily autonomy to the right to poison a foetus with nicotine.

I didn't see the thread you are referring to. I thought it was the one where a father had remarked that as his partner had chosen not to abort perhaps stopping smoking might be wise.