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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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64 replies

mommy101 · 24/07/2017 21:12

I've never been one for feminism but recently I'm starting to realise that, to some extent, it's needed. I've learnt a lot recently and although I think some things are a little 'to far' never did I realise how bad things are in this day and age for women. The trans thing is getting way beyond the joke, equality (which I naievly thought we now had) is clearly not at a stage where it could live up to its name etc...

Anyway... could some feminists tell me anything else I need to know? I'm a baby in all this and would love to learn more....

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TheWitchAndTrevor · 25/07/2017 14:44

I wouldn't dismiss, spy and legally blonde though, they are female leads and it's the anti to the drip drip of the usual.

allegretto · 25/07/2017 14:44

Ghostbusters2 is not the new all female one! I saw it was made to sit through it yesterday!

I second Deborah Cameron's book! Her blog is also great. Debuk.wordpress.com

mommy101 · 25/07/2017 14:52

Notlove I feel the same about pornography, never understood why we are 'normalising' it, to me, when in a marriage or relationship it is far far far from normal. Not to mention the impact it's having on our younger generation, boys and girls alike Hmm

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BertrandRussell · 25/07/2017 16:48

Did I mean Ghostbusters 3? Sorry!

And the ridiculous fuss some people making about the new Dr Who is a very good staring off point for discussion.

Gileswithachainsaw · 25/07/2017 16:50

Funnily enough dd did tell me some people at school had said they are going to refuse to watch it now and she thinks they are being stupid

NoLoveofMine · 25/07/2017 18:11

I agree mommy101. I find its acceptance and the effects it's having extremely worrying, with children viewing it at such young ages now. This is bad enough on its own with the expectations it's leading to - the normalisation of the degrading treatment of women (and girls), what sex is being viewed as being (something boys/men do "to" girls/women rather than "with") - and even more so without adequate education on sex, relationships, consent and so forth.

NoLoveofMine · 25/07/2017 18:37

But im after something featuring women drs/police officers/firefighters that are really part of the main cast

Whilst I appreciate these aren't films you could talk to her about the women actually doing these jobs at the highest level. For example, Dany Cotton, Commissioner of the London Fire Brigade (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dany_Cotton), Cressida Dick, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and in terms of doctors there are so many excelling but Professor Neena Modi is one whose opinions are regularly sought on many issues. She may find it heartening to discover all the women achieving at the highest levels across society (then also look into some magnificent women from history).

In terms of films it's a shame if there aren't (m)any for that age group with great women and girls.

BertrandRussell · 25/07/2017 19:15

Is she too young for Happy Valley?

Gileswithachainsaw · 25/07/2017 20:13

We have already talked about dany cotton after dd2 got a reading book with a "fireman" in it and I was explaining it should say fire fighter Blush

I will show her the professor you mentioned though thank you!

What is happy valley about?

Writersblock2 · 25/07/2017 20:57

Seconding reading the site Feminist Current. Absolute wealth of info and it would be great to see more women from the UK on there!

SarinaJ · 25/07/2017 21:24

Definitely read Feminist Current ... just don't accidentally read Everyday Feminism, which I am sure has nothing to do with actual feminism at all

NoLoveofMine · 25/07/2017 21:36

We have already talked about dany cotton after dd2 got a reading book with a "fireman" in it and I was explaining it should say fire fighter

It's great you're challenging things such as this and helping your daughter to question them too Giles!

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 25/07/2017 22:17

Going back to my teens - if you can get Cagney and Lacey on DVD through Amazon it was brilliant. And Nine to Five is hilarious.

Getting back to the "no means no" discussion in Deborah Cameron's book, I find a really useful mental trick to play is to move the focus off women's behaviour and onto men's. Because time after time, the excuses for bad behaviour by some men seem to centre round treating men as a force of nature like a hurricane or an earthquake, and assuming the onus is on women to take evasive action. It becomes much more interesting when every time someone makes an assertion about women's behaviour, you turn that round and ask "how is the man behaving?" and crucially, "under what similar circumstances would he behave differently?"

So - threads on here where a woman is bemoaning her husband being a lazy slob, and loads of posters pop up saying "you have to understand that men don't see dirt", or "you have to train him," or "you have to spend some of your precious time and mental energy writing him a step by step list, then accept he'll still get it wrong." Turn it round. A man who has a workshop (carpentry, car maintenance) - does he put up with that being cluttered and messy because "he can't see dirt"? Nine times out of ten no. A man who has a task he wants to do - does he need training like a dog, or does he take the initiative and learn what he needs to? Does he expect his boss in the workplace to lead him through tasks step by step and accept that he'll still only do a half-arsed job? No.

And victim blaming in sex crimes. "It was what she was wearing." So, short skimpy skirt, knickers showing, long beautiful toned legs on display, strappy dress - do we see men throwing themselves onto centre court to molest the female players at Wimbledon? Of course we don't - surprise surprise they can control themselves in those circumstances.

Or "things had gone so far he couldn't stop himself." Imagine the randiest male on the planet, a teenage boy - he's sneaked his girlfriend into his bedroom, his mum walks in to collect the laundry. Can he stop mid thrust in those circumstances? Course he can.

And so on and so on... once you start asking questions about supposedly uncontrollable male urges, hardly any stand up to scrutiny. One might almost think it was being used as an excuse to hide behind...

So, everytime people blame women for men's bad behaviour, turn it round - insist on focusing on the men instead. Prostitution? Sex pozzie types try to tell you you're castigating women's "choices" to enter prostitution. No, I'm not, I'm castigating men's choices to use and abuse women's bodies. Ditto porn. Ditto sexual violence.

MudGolum · 26/07/2017 20:23

Brilliantly put Mostly.

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