'Gender identity' and discrimination

[FurryGiraffe]

I have just been sent a link to a survey my employer is running on gender discrimination (I'm an academic and its a university survey in conjunction with the institution's Athena Swan charter renewal). It repeatedly uses the terminology of 'gender identity': asking whether I have suffered discrimination (in a variety of contexts) because of my 'gender identity' and then asking what my 'gender identity' is. Nowhere does it mention discrimination on the basis of biological sex, or what my biological sex is. And I am hopping mad at the potential that this has to conceal the issues.

I haven't suffered discrimination on the basis of my gender identity. I have suffered discrimination on the basis of my biological sex, insofar as I have twice lost out on career progression opportunities as a result of being on maternity leave. But a survey that concentrates on 'gender identity' isn't going to identify pregnancy and childbirth as a cause of gender identity based discrimination, is it? Because natal males identifying as female don't become pregnant and natal females who identify as male do (or at least can), so from a gender identity perspective, pregnancy is not a root cause of discrimination, is it? Meanwhile, a very real cause of discrimination against women will go unidentified because we are asking the wrong question.

Grr. Sorry. I'm not sure what I'm after if anything other than a rant.

Indeed Datun. Controlling, aggressive and in my opinion misogynistic and/or once again blaming women for their suffering/anything they might do. Women are forced/pressured into accommodating them, pandering to their wishes and attacked for not doing so. What also frustrates me is how many seem to be blind to this, even falling over themselves to be "allies" to them.

Dear FurryGiraffe (Cross posting as it is relevant to this thread)

So it seems ATL, the Association of Teachers and Lecturers Union in the UK would like to coerce their members to attend compulsory "gender diversity training".

I am thankful I left the profession as I would not put up with this idiocy.

I can just imagine it.

"Good morning all, may we do our routine gender and pronoun check before we start the class as I would not like to cause offence." "Ok lets begin" - points to first student - "and what is your preferred name and pronoun today?" "Oh how lovely so pleased you have chosen a different one to yesterday that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside". Points to next student "Oh you are staying the same today how sweet" an hour later having gone through all preferred names and pronouns and not actually started lesson "Well that's all for today....."

www.atl.org.uk/latest/atl-comment-compulsory-gender-diversity-training-college-staff

I've been thinking about this and I think you might want to ask why your employer is conducting a survey referring to only 1 of the 9 protected characteristics.
(Age.
Disability
Gender reassignment
Marriage and civil partnership
Pregnancy and maternity
Race
Religion and belief
Sex
Sexual orientation )
Are they confident they are not discriminating on any of the other 8 grounds?

Is this survey because they are unsure of how they deal with gender reassignment issues?

But as you do not fall within the protected category on which they are conducting the survey any response from you, beyond you are not within the protected category , is not particularly meaningful.

I really don't think it cuts across the other characteristics in the way you fear. It should protect Joseph in accounts who was good at his job but ceased to get pay rises or promotion as "Josephine".

Lass

They're conducting the survey because the Athena Swan process requires them to conduct (and reflect on) surveys of staff and students. Athena Swan's remit is not equality generally: it was originally concerned with equality of the sexes (and more specifically promoting equality of women in STEM departments); they have now shifted to embrace equality of gender identity. The other protected characteristics under the Equality Act aren't relevant to Athena Swan.

The problem is, it's very clear from the questions and the info I was sent, that this survey, which asked about discrimination based on gender identity, is the only survey they are doing for the Athena Swan process. There won't be a separate one looking at sex discrimination, because whoever wrote the thing wouldn't see the purpose. Gender identity is all you need. There is no space for consideration of sex based discrimination distinct from discrimination based on gender identity in this process.

I get that . I still think your response is that Athena Swan's website refers to 2 protected characteristics- sex discriminatory and gender identity discrimination.

ECU’s Athena SWAN Charter was established in 2005 to encourage and recognise commitment to advancing the careers of women in science, technology, engineering, maths and medicine (STEMM) employment in higher education and research

In May 2015 the charter was expanded to recognise work undertaken in arts, humanities, social sciences, business and law (AHSSBL), and in professional and support roles, and for trans staff and students. The charter now recognises work undertaken to address gender equality more broadly, and not just barriers to progression that affect women

So why are they only conducting a survey on one of them?

Make them clarify it- do they think discrimination on the basis of gender identity is the same as discrimination on the grounds of sex?

If they say yes, list all the ways you think you have been discriminated against.

If they say it is different then why are they only asking about 1?

It does appear that Athena Swan doesn't make any distinctions between women and trans women. So it's not necessarily your uni that's incorrect but the application process itself. However, if they are collecting data, there's nothing stopping them collecting separate information on women and transwomen which they can then combine for the athena swan application. It may help them identify specific areas where people are being discriminated against.

I just wonder if a survey was sent round my office about discrimination on the basis of gender or gender identity whether any one would give a second thought to it not simply meaning "male" or "female" and answer accordingly.

You made the point that natal trans women can't get pregnant whilst natal trans men can. Statistically they will be a minute %age.

It would make more sense to have separate data but if they are going to lump trans persons with their equivalent biological sex both it seems a wee bit pointless to avoid telling them how you have been discriminated against.