Need to offload about a meeting yesterday (potentially triggering language).

[2015newstart]

I work in a male dominated industry. Most of the time, due to the field I work in, it's not a problem (i.e. my male colleagues behave like normal people).

Yesterday I went to an external meeting hosted by a senior, highly respected, man. I was a bit when he asked the "ladies" to "excuse my French" before he said 'shit' (3 women in a room with 6 men, actually a better proportion than normal). He then went on to say about a contactor, without batting an eyelid, "they're going to rape us for every penny they can".

I stopped writing. The woman next to me stopped typing. He just carried on and we all ignored it. I'm still a little bit angry - in my mind that's far, far more offensive than using one of the milder swearwords.

A complaint will get me nowhere and would probably damage my career - at the top it's a complete old boys' network so a complaint would have no effect and he's also extremely good at his job so they wouldn't want to do anything to lose him (his company is public sector, unlike mine, and they lose people all the time to private companies paying more). Challenging it at the time, ditto.

I thought this would be a nice safe space to share my disgust. I think it's the feeling of not being able to do anything to change his mind that's making me more cross. I did tell some of my (male - I'm the only woman in my team) colleagues when I got back and they were disgusted which made me feel less like I was being unreasonably touchy!

@DJBaggySmalls It sounds like a classic case of entitlement culture. He made a snarky comment about women in the room and went on to use provocative language. He knows he can do that without anyone being able to challenge him.

Like he's sort of pre-empted himself from any responsibility? Akin to the perennial "I'm not racist but....
By excusing themselves first, they feel they can get away with it.

It's a very different kettle of fish to saying, "I'm so sorry, my lunch was rammed full of garlic, so I am a bit stinky this afternoon" - that is objective and not really their fault (menu choices aside). But being a sexist/offensive so and so is 100% a voluntary self-made choice that he can be or not be.

I work in a male dominated industry this happens all the time in meetings.

When you complain, stand up for yourself or otherwise point out the unacceptable sexist nature of the males behaviour you get labelled a trouble maker. That'd be me! I've been turned down for promotion 3 years running as I have "communication issues" - or in other words I stand up for myself.

Complaints surrounding my behaviour include
swearing - apparently it's fine if you're a man but not if you're a woman.
Trying to end a meeting as chair apparently they didn't like me talking over them - they'd been off topic for 20 minutes and had spent the rest of the hour shouting over me or ignoring me - again fine for men but not for women.
Refusing to be bullied into unsafe design decisions by project management. They did it anyway then removed me from the project team.
Pointing out an error to a senior colleague who now refuses to work with me and the results of ignoring me cost the company a considerable amount of money as the errors were propagated through the design and instead of 1 document hundreds needed to be changed. This is some how my fault not the sexist senior dick head who actually made me cry (and I don't cry!) When I very politely suggested we stop and check before continuing. When I complained they said "that's just how dick head is though"

If I could do something else I would I'm beyond sick of ignoring the male entailment, aggressive bullshit unfortunately I'm stuck for now. I'm actually hoping I can have a second child so i can have another year maternity. I'm a failing femainst!

You definitely aren't failing in any way, least of all feminism, GlitteryGlitter. Having to put up with that sexist nonsense at work would wear anyone down; it's infuriating women are still having to do so in so many workplaces. Despite all this you're standing up for yourself (and all women) as well as your firm in trying to look out for their best interests despite this treatment.

Women seem to have to do so much more to be taken seriously (or just aren't due to being women) then you stand up against sexism and are passed over for promotion continually just for not accepting it. So the cycle continues that women learn they need to be compliant and ignore sexism at work to get on whilst men I expect get the bulk of the promotions and perpetuate that culture. It makes me fear for the future though it enrage me women are having to put up with it now - driving more women away from male dominated fields such as yours and putting others off joining them.

Every day sexism is so wearing. Not least because explaining it is so fucking depressing. The "excuse me ladies" is just as bad. I frequently say "I'm not a lady" and I'm pretty sure people think I mean "treat me like one of the lads". I actually mean I'm not landed gentry and don't buy into the saints and whores categories that females are split into.

I am on a whole heap of nonsense just now because a tutor reprimanded me for swearing. It was a very sweary class, and I am particularly sweary. But he said "it wasn't very lady like". There after I lost all respect for him and reported every incidence of every day sexism.

OP I totally understand not reporting it. I am under a mountain of shit because of it and it's not my job. All you can do is continue to be visible in your job and remember someday someone will ask your opinion on this man and you can tell them. Might be the right person at the right time.

ShotsFired thats interesting, I hadn't made that connection before.

"it wasn't very lady like".
That phrase really grates. Why are we held to higher account?

What's a good come-back for that?

I didn't have a good come back, it came from no where and I initially thought he was attempting humour. The usual "I am not a lady" doesn't suffice. And in this context "fuck off you antiquated arsehole" wasn't appropriate.

It's also a way to put you in your place. Which stings too, held to a higher standard but also less than, the men can swear but ladies (boak) must limit their vocabulary.

On the "excuse me ladies", I have always had a standing response over the years...

"I don't give a fuck if you swear, but I do give a fuck if you apologise to we 'feeble ladies' and then swear. You only do it to try to prove you are a big man. It doesn't work."

I have said it without fear or favour to any man who tries this, including those who were more senior. They never bite back because they know I have them nailed for what they are.

Maybe look puzzled and ask him to clarify? "So, just to check, it's fine for students with a penis to swear, but not OK for students with breasts?
Perhaps you can confirm what language is appropriate for those of us with breasts?".

Or you could always tell him "It's OK, I identify as a man, you dickhead"

Or just say you don't identify as a laydeee. It might make him think and it's completely accurate.

I was a ridiculous situation. He attempted to control the class which I actually support, I'm pretty academic but he had never met us before. The rest of the class know me and were waiting for me to say something outrageous and funny (stealth boast I'm hilarious) but I didn't want to undermine the tutor completely and embarrass him.

So I brought it up in the correct way later. And have landed a mountain of shit on myself. Initially I was told I didn't understand, see another comment about men not liking missing work for dr appointments, I explained I am very familiar with social nuance and I was very clear. Ranks were closed and I am sitting at home fuming and re evaluating life choices.

Thread derail but I'm really pissed

IMO this sort of 'under the radar' sexism is the real problem - if you call it out you're seen as oversensitive and a troublemaker. I'd far rather blatant sexism any day - at least it's more honest. Fuck all those 'good guys' who pat themselves on the back for being so great while at the same time carrying on like this.

The fact is, a woman would never use the 'rape' comment because she can be raped and there is a high possibility she has been raped at some point. So for her it isn't just a bantery word to throw about. And you know what the kicker is? If a woman tried to use the word rape in a serious context she'd be accused of making the men feel uncomfortable, and lord knows we must never do that!!! Men can throw about whatever words they want but women must be quiet about things like rape and periods and sexual harassment for fear that the poor ickle men feel bad. Or, if she tried to bring up how she didn't like the bantery use of the word due to her own experience, again she'd be told to shut up because the men can say what they like when they like but she certainly can't. She must at all times observe the sensitivities of the men and never upset them by commenting on their language. The hypocrisy is absolutely staggering.

As for the 'excuse my french' comment - that is blatant sexism because the clear message is 'I speak for men, and I have to excuse and modify my language for the other group, the women, the ones who don't really belong here.' Can you imagine if he said 'excuse me all you black people' while he used a word???

I was recently at a meeting where I was told that if I was presenting a proposal to a particular man I should get my business partner (my DH) to do it for me because this particular man is sexist and wouldn't listen to me. This man is very high up in a public sector organisation. He has no problem with people knowing he is sexist and his colleagues have no problem in telling outside contractors that. Again, can you imagine if he was racist? Can you imagine anyone ever telling a black person not to present to a high-up in a public sector organisations because that person was racist and wouldn't listen??
FFS

The only comeback I use is 'Excuse me, could you repeat that?' It shames the men who actually have some measure of sense and humanity - the rest are a lost cause.

thesparrow that's a great way to put it. "Excuse me black people" before I say something just for the whites would be more obviously outrageous.

And the openly sexist man you are dealing with? Do you scupper the entire meeting/project by forcing to engage with a female or do you pander to him and allow him to thrive? Choices choices.

'And the openly sexist man you are dealing with? Do you scupper the entire meeting/project by forcing to engage with a female or do you pander to him and allow him to thrive? Choices choices.'

I certainly will not ask my DH to present the proposal for me. There is no way I'm going to debase myself like that, not for anyone. If he chooses not to listen, so be it.

Yeah. Rape jokes are just banter - but 'ladies and gentlemen' on the underground? That's real actual violence!

Don't get me started on the casual use of Frape to describe when someone gets into someone else's Facebook account and posts stuff

I once worked for someone who apologised to the women in the room for the swearing (and he did swear a lot!), which was hideous particularly when I was the only woman in there and the most junior. To be fair to him, he was much older and I would imagine from his background had been brought up to do this, along with walking on the outside of the pavement and holding open the door. And he didn't say "ladies" when apologising

You could have called him out on it. "Hey, you ask us ladies to pardon your french and then use the rape word, like that? You have a lot to learn...."