Need to offload about a meeting yesterday (potentially triggering language).

[2015newstart]

I work in a male dominated industry. Most of the time, due to the field I work in, it's not a problem (i.e. my male colleagues behave like normal people).

Yesterday I went to an external meeting hosted by a senior, highly respected, man. I was a bit when he asked the "ladies" to "excuse my French" before he said 'shit' (3 women in a room with 6 men, actually a better proportion than normal). He then went on to say about a contactor, without batting an eyelid, "they're going to rape us for every penny they can".

I stopped writing. The woman next to me stopped typing. He just carried on and we all ignored it. I'm still a little bit angry - in my mind that's far, far more offensive than using one of the milder swearwords.

A complaint will get me nowhere and would probably damage my career - at the top it's a complete old boys' network so a complaint would have no effect and he's also extremely good at his job so they wouldn't want to do anything to lose him (his company is public sector, unlike mine, and they lose people all the time to private companies paying more). Challenging it at the time, ditto.

I thought this would be a nice safe space to share my disgust. I think it's the feeling of not being able to do anything to change his mind that's making me more cross. I did tell some of my (male - I'm the only woman in my team) colleagues when I got back and they were disgusted which made me feel less like I was being unreasonably touchy!

Wouldnt bother me at all. Not the most professional language but doesn't sound as if it was anything other than bloke-ish banter. Of course it depends on much more than just speech ie body language, history of behaviour, whether he's a general sleezebag.......

Oh god I hate the whole "excuse the ladies" shit. It makes you feel like some special snowflake and excluded at the same time.

I think they do it to be the big I am "oooh look at me being edgy and tough".

You should have said "Don't worry. I don't give a fuck if you swear". That would've shocked him!

"Blokeish banter' ah well that's OK then, jeez.

Yanbu, it's unprofessional and unacceptable, there are so many other phrases that he could have used instead, he is an idiot.

It was inappropriate. But I wouldn't give it too much headspace.

It sounds like it might have triggered something personal for you though. Sorry if this is the case.

Swearing once or twice, fair enough. 'Excuse me ladies', a little patronising but depending on his age he probably thought he was funny.
Comments about 'rape', disgusting and nothing to do with banter.

Incidentally, a month or 2 back I had to speak to a male student for using 'rape' to refer to his mate jokingly shoving him. This post just confirms why stuff like this needs challenging when they're teenagers.

Jijh I did toy with doing that but decided against it... once he went into make the rape comment I wished I had.

It was a very old fashioned place - they had a works depot attached and I went in to the kitchen to get a glass of water and all the maintenance guys fell silent and watched me until I left the room (bleurgh face)

Still doesn't beat the time I went to another meeting and a bloke said, as he went under the table to plug his laptop in, "Don't worry I'm not going to look up your skirt." Well thanks but I didn't think that until you said it!

It's horrible phrase. I'm not triggered, I've never been raped, but I still think it's nasty.

My husband was at an event where a last minute switch meant that a woman was talking on stage just before his colleague. His colleague was pissed off and said something along the lines of '...I don't want her sloppy seconds'.

DH called him out on it (and it altered his opinion of this person).

But I completely agree with you, OP. Feeling as though you will be singled out as touchy, difficult, a feminazi, whatever, is what makes us not speak up.

I'm glad the woman next to you did a second take. Maybe a loud tut?

Definitely unacceptable language, there are hundreds of other words he could have used in that context, why the word rape? It's just crass. What if someone in the room had been raped?

Not the most professional language but doesn't sound as if it was anything other than bloke-ish banter.

And therein lies the problem. People brushing off unacceptable and offensive language/behaviour as 'banter' gives people a licence to be cunts.

There's no reason why he couldn't have used another word.

Tbf the word rape can be used to mean destruction according to the OED. The fact that you're only aware of or only accept the one meaning shouldn't really be his issue.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks

It means the same thing. Just that one definition is applied to a woman.

"rape - an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside. In the term "raping and pillaging",.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks

It means the same thing. Just that one definition is applied to a woman.

"rape - an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside. In the term "raping and pillaging",.

Milk that's fine. Except he didn't mean 'they're going to destroy us for every penny', he meant 'take us for every penny'. In which case the assault meaning stands.

Delete That was exactly my thought. I've not been raped, I have been assaulted and his use of that language completely changed my previous positive opinion of him.

To be fair, it's also a yellow flowered crop - he could easily have meant that they'd scatter you with flowers /s

Of course he bloody meant rape as in rape, and not in the 'spoil or destroy' sense - it makes no more sense in that sentence than my explanation.

Well I have been raped and even now at the ripe old age of 52 and after miles and miles of therapy I would have found that phrase unsettling in any situation but especially a meeting. It's amazing to me that it still needs explaining that there are likely to be people in the room who not only won't find that word funny but also won't be able to say how uncomfortable it makes them feel.

I don't care who he is or what his position is, someone needs to say something to a senior manager about that use of language in a meeting. It's at least as offensive to a similar number of people to use rape as a handy metaphor as it is to say n*** in a woodpile.

There's so much sexism inherent in his attitude; the specifically apologising to women for language such as he used is ridiculous and sexist even if he thinks he's being "chivalrous" (which he may well not have, it could have been said in quite a patronising manner). As for using the term "rape" in that context, abhorrent. It's awful how many men and boys think nothing of using it in such circumstances and with regards to work, sport and so forth - they know full well what they're doing in my opinion. It's unacceptable and in my opinion adds to a culture which is hostile to women and girls, especially those who have suffered rape, dropping this violent language in is something I'd find vaguely threatening and aggressive - it belittles the horrific crime of rape.

Except he didn't mean 'they're going to destroy us for every penny', he meant 'take us for every penny'. In which case the assault meaning stands.

Indeed. He knew full well what he was saying using the word in that context; I'd like to say I'm stunned a couple of posts are defending him but I'm not really. Excuses are always made for men making such comments.

Surely this would be something HR should be hot on?
It's awful. Completely inappropriate, ignorant, offensive, and totally unprofessional.

I worked in a male dominated industry and experienced this utter fuckwittery amongst casual racism in meetings. I always felt sick but not able to report as the hierarchy was a toxic old boys club. I was out of there the first chance I got.

It's unacceptable. Maybe if it happens again, you could remember that most of your (male) colleagues also found the rape reference unacceptable, and just in the moment, object. It can be done fairly lightly, perhaps? A questioning of the phrase, rather than anger.

I once had to do this on the spur of the moment when on an interview panel, to a much senior man - he wasn't using rape language but was making quite a stereotypical assumption about the only female candidate. I just said I was uncomfortable with that language.

But we were in the same organisation & I was relatively secure. So I understand why you didn't say something. Also, that normal people don't expect such inappropriate words/ideas to be expressed in that situation, so there's always the blankness of shock, IYSWIM. I think the French called it esprit d'escalier - the comeback you only think of as you're walking downstairs after leaving an event.

Sorry to hear that WhattheChuff. I think that's another way this kind of thing is perpetuated - this attitude excludes women (and people of colour), makes them feel uncomfortable so many drop out of the company/field whilst men who see that kind of talk as acceptable rise to the top, replacing those who went before and continuing the cycle.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool I hope you're alright As you say, this shows again why this kind of language is unacceptable and shows a complete lack of care or concern for other people.

I've complained about something similar before. It's totally inappropriate.

My OH works in construction, and since having met me and listened to my various accounts from Rl and here and other places, he is so more aware of the low level persistent sexism at work. I think he hears things through a "what would Shots say if she were here" filter now!

He is management so mainly office based, with a much higher proportion of female colleagues. Just this week he has started informal proceedings against one of the "old guard" who is continually remarking on women's appearances and regular innuendo type comments.

If the chap does not change his attitude (and there have been others in his management team who have used the "aw, that's just Bob!" line), then he will be making it formal/disciplinary.

That's excellent regarding your husband Shots! This is how things need to change and it's brilliant you've had an impact on him which is helping women in his workplace and the culture there. It's sending out a vital message there that he won't tolerate that kind of attitude and the women must feel very supportive and much happier at work for it, knowing they won't be held back by sexist attitudes either.

I think he's a keeper!

We were chatting about it recently and I was saying that these women, whatever they wear or look like, are at work. Therefore they are surveyors and engineers and site staff first and foremost - just like the men are brickies or architects or project managers, not Steve with the nice hands or Dan with the pretty boots. They should not be primarily recognised for their gender!

He works for a firm that is very hot on modern values too, so I think he will do well there

Indeed Shots. Men ogling and making unsolicited comments about women's appearance is unpleasant anyway and makes many women and girls uncomfortable, let alone in a workplace environment. Well done to your husband for ensuring it's stopped and his firm sounds excellent as well!

It sounds like a classic case of entitlement culture. He made a snarky comment about women in the room and went on to use provocative language. He knows he can do that without anyone being able to challenge him.
At least now you know where you stand and who you can trust.