Have I been reading these boards too long?!

[aliasjoey]

I've always been a feminist, but since discovering Mumsnet I've learnt so much, every day is a new education. But now I'm seeing male privilege everywhere, even in really innocent things!

Today I was listening to the radio, it was Phil Collins singing Against All Odds. And suddenly I thought hang on, why does she 'need' to listen to what you want to say? Maybe she's had enough of you droning on about what YOU want all the time? And "turn around and see my face" ? Er, no love just keep walking.

Then I picked up a book (don't remember the title) and the blurb on the back was something like "Bob has got Millicent locked up in a cell... but Millicent has a secret of her own. Why is she really there?" and I immediately thought well that's just victim blaming!

Not sure whether I'm imagining it... or just noticing for the first time. But it's taken years to see these things, I guess for men or anyone who isn't interested they would never even realise .

Sorry, I'm babbling.

Totally agree. It used to be a lot easier when DH and I were out in mixed company and I would meet a girlfriend's eyes over something one of them said. Didn't even have to start in with the eye rolling, just meeting each other's gaze was enough.

Now, in my head, there's a klaxon going off - Warning! Warning! Male Entitlement!

Once you have mentally identified it and then named it, the label applies everywhere.

I'm just the same and agree with pps that you can't unsee it. I love old 70s and 80s music but blimey - some of the lyrics! This site has been good for me though, I know far more now than I did 10 years ago and I think (hope!) that dh and 24yr old ds are more aware of casual misogyny and feminist issues through my reading on here. My dad rolls his eyes at me sometimes when i call him out on stuff, but I'll keep trying.

YES. Though I do wonder sometimes if it's confirmation bias.

After all, Red Pill dudes see MISANDRY!!! everywhere, and their perception doesn't necessarily bear any resemblance to reality.

But every time someone tells me something like "our chairman is a woman, because we wouldn't call her a chair, she's not for sitting on" (why not chairwoman? Or a chairperson? Or some other word then?) I restrain myself from rolling my eyes. And think of Man Who Has It All.

Plus you've all done a number on my questioning of EVERYTHING. I don't think my hyper lefty friends quite know what's hit them. (The conservative types are much more used to debating me)

So thank you feminism board! I have lurked a long time and you've indoctrinated me pretty thoroughly (with your "logic" and "reason" and "thoughtful arguments", how dare you.)

It really is, as PP has said upthread, that once your eyes are opened to it they can't be closed again. I have to avoid most of the threads on AIBU because, lately, they all seem to be about cheeky little scamp husbands who won't pick up their pants or cook a meal and there are pages of people agreeing and eye rolling about what men are like. I want to wade in and scream WAKE UP FOR GODS SAKE! But I don't

Recently I had to change the radio station I listen to because I find the breakfast show presenter a raging misogynist.

I think you have to remember everyone is the victim of misogynistic patriarchy. It's core values are a widespread delusion. People can perpetuate the misogynistic values in complete ignorance. No point hating people for blind ignorance, they just need to be educated.

Me too!
The most painful thing, I think is that I have recently become all too aware that my own subconscious keeps letting me down.
I have always thought of myself as a feminist, and try my hardest to use critical thinking etc, and yet yesterday as I squeezed into the space next to an atrociously parked 4 X 4, I thought to myself "wow hasn't she parked badly, its because of women like her that we have a reputation for being bad drivers". Of course, while I was getting dd out of her car seat the driver returned to the other car. It was a man. I was so pissed off with myself, but if I am leaping to conclusions like that, what must be going on in the heads of those who wont even recognise that sexism still exists?

Since joining MN, reading this board in particular and raising teen daughters I have become more strident in my feminist views. Thank you all

And the louder I shout (metaphorically) about it, to clear the path for my daughters, the more teen-eye-rolling I get because I'm like a stuck record and they think they know it all already

In many ways I hope life will be different for them and they won't be subjected to the same misogyny delusional hope

Doopity Plus you've all done a number on my questioning of EVERYTHING. I don't think my hyper lefty friends quite know what's hit them.

Most of my hyper-lefty friends (now former ) were male. I guess they were the ones who shouted the loudest and debated most... anyway, unfortunately their misogyny (largely unconscious) manifested itself in a more interpersonal way hence the "former". And me now re-evaluating things and saddened by knowing I invested in relationships with people who don't really view me as human. Knowing sexist statements went unchallenged, that bullying man who groped me was allowed to sneer at me and speak over me and generally do little things to snub me, the general all men piling in to debate and it being so hard to speak at all, them claiming a black person can never be racist but NAMALTING all over the place and calling me sexist.

Same people, incidentally, refer to another guy as "rapist Andy" (not real name) after he allegedly sexually assaulted someone, yet a person who assaulted me (comparable situation) was welcome in their homes... due to weird taking sides type behaviour (that both sexes do actually) but actually based on some other kind of discrimination where they pretend to be morally outraged in one situation but turn a blind eye when it happens to someone else. Purely out of loyalty to the guy who assaulted me (and quite possibly discrimination on mental health grounds to the other guy). The fake right-on-ness outrages me! And of course they're all tied up with trans now. (They weren't 100% awful of course, but this stuff grated even when I couldn't adequately express it).

Sorry if I'm rambling, I don't think this is all feminism related. I'm finding the personal nature of some of this quite hard to deal with.

BigKids I can't watch any comedy shows / panel shows any more as the token woman pisses me off so much.

I was fuming the other day watching Mock the Week. Nish Kumar and Romesh Ranganathan were on it, and (mainly Nish IIRC) kept making jokes about them filling diversity quotas, it being UKIPs least favourite episode etc. There was, as you say, ONE woman on the panel (Angela Barnes). It concerns me I may be becoming less sympathetic to other issues, especially racism, as it seems to be the cause célèbre and all I see is privileged men (for those who play privilege bingo, I technically "win" over, say, Nish Kumar, as despite being white I am female, "mental", and poor.... but the realities of privilege in the real world mean that my viewpoint is actually worth less as even the social justice warriors don't tend to follow their own reasoning...!) Not that I don't care about racism, but more that I care about the underdog which weirdly means I find it harder to give any emotional energy to causes lots of people already care about, iyswim. Argh, apologies, I have been thinking about this a lot recently.

On a lighter note, there was a great moment on The Last Leg in March. All male line-up, including Harry Hill. He sat down, looked around, and said: "On the week of International Women's Day, may I just congratulate you on your excellent line-up?" (to big laugh and applause).

I have recently 'woken' too OP.

I didn't sleep last night due to the rage. TeenVogue have just published a f**kin guide to Anal sex .....its so so appalling. They have included a diagram that shows girls are being reduced to fuckholes to satisfy men. Sorry - this has upset me so much...whereas 6 months ago it wouldn't even have registered on my radar. They have not even shown the clitoris so a girls main source of pleasure completely ignored. And to top it all - the diagram is labelled as that of a 'on Protate Owner'...reduced to a non male as female is clearly now an offensive term. Grrrr....

www.independent.co.uk/voices/teen-vogue-anal-sex-prostate-owner-sheila-michaels-feminism-teenagers-a7831671.html

Sorry - i don't know how tho get the link to post properly but I am fuming. I am seeing this anti woman crap everywhere.

'non Prostate owner'

NO clitoris. Non-prostate owner. Aimed at minors.

A magazine aimed at teenagers some of whom are under the age of consent, telling them how to do anal sex.

Gigi Engle, the author, is a self-styled writer, feminist and dick whisperer. She also writes for Teen Vogue on BDSM.

I'm not personally into anal or BDSM, but some people are. Whatever floats your boat - although there are power dynamic issues which sometimes cause a difference of opinion within feminism.

But thirteen year olds! THIRTEEN!!

Get the fuck off our children with your sex pozzy agenda.

Why couldn't a 'feminist' write an article about the appalling pressure girls are under to have anal sex to please boys who are over exposed to porn.

Yes, anal sex (any sex) is a choice.

It's a choice for adults.

Music videos, rap in particular, it's all there. Quiz shows, panel shows, improving but could do better. We need to be vigilant as small gains are quickly lost.
It is nice to see more women in sport but annoying to see so many male coaches. The England football (ladies) did not have a woman in the shortlist despite many suitably qualified female applicants. But it's ok because Phil Neville can do it, he has zero coaching experience. Yay....Duhhduhhh!
Fifty shades was dodgy as well.....

.

dick whisperer

Is that a thing? Ha, I’m one Google away from meltdown so I’ll have to give finding out more about this idiot a miss and get on with my day.

Dick whisperer, ffs.

I get what you mean completely. A couple of years back, I knew nothing about anything to do with feminism. now, I see misogyny everywhere where before I would never have questioned it. Its odd, I don't think I could go back to the mindset I had before even if I tried. Its very much like..once you see the emperor is naked, you cannot see the cloak anymore even with effort.

It's everywhere. And it's different to movements like #everydaysexism because we're calling out more deep rooted misogyny and it doesn't necessarily always have a parallel with sexism. That might only make sense in my head!

I worked on a history project about women in the 20th century and it was so obvious how women's rights come and go.

At the time when I was doing that job, women's rights were doing pretty well and everyone seemed to think it was just onwards and upwards.

Unfortunately I have been proved right and we have to start all over again.

Yeah it does have an effect. My DP has always been quite 'old-fashioned' in his thinking, which I've always put up with. Until last week when we had a row over the Tesco court case and also whether it's fine to refer to women en masse as 'girls'. He's still a bit huffy. Influence of MN.

YY OP and what's worse is that now I've started pointing it out all the time

The plus is that some female chums who used to be "FGS stop banging on about this" have had the scales fall from their eyes. One of them last weekend said to a couple of blokes we were having lunch with "Fuck off with that, you're just saying that because I'm a woman"

#proud #IblamemumsnetFWR

Yes I agree OP.

Ive always felt strongly about womens rights but for much of my 20s i was vety much 'I'm an egalitarian!' But roll on 20 years and like I've taken a huge step back & seen the bigger picture and it's just not pretty.
I get very frustrated with topics like grid girls - why can't people see that whats good for an individual can still be harmful for the whole group? And cant they grasp that a society that even contemplates, let alone accepts and then defends using other human beings as pretty objects has a totally fucked up power balance?

I want everyone to step back and see but so many people form an opinion and then remain completely inflexible. Or the current status quo works perfectly well for them, thanks very much, and they have zero interest in exploring the validity of their world view.

And I now loathe panel fucking shows (except when Jo Brand is on HIGNFY).

I may have to give DP the heave ho, as he luffs a panel show. although he responds pretty well to my constant chuntering about feminism

joey I'm in the process of educating dd. Dh has heard it all from me so he knows the score and is also a supporting of womens rights.

Dd, being younger, is more liberal and accepting than us jaded 'oldies' but she's starting to open her eyes. I just want her to see that she doesn't have to accept every day misogyny.

Great article in the BBC news today which helped to demonstrate this:

Women pay more because they are female

Welcome to the world of clarity OP, glad to have you join the family.

I see sexism in everything, but then so many things have really improved. Scandinavian and Scandi-style crime dramas are so much better for their realism. Silent Witness is amazingly being transformed from within by Liz Carr (from what I can see).

Disney did great things with Frozen, Moana, etc. Even Star wars has women playing really important roles, visible older women in these latest films.

Strictly Come Dancing tore up the rule-book by having 2 female co-presenters - shock horror! There are more and more female 'experts' presenting great programmes, Maggie Arderin-Pocock, Mary Beard, Bettany Hughes, Alice Roberts, Janina Ramirez, Lucy Worsley, etc. Female game show hosts, Sandi Toksvik, Victoria Coren Mitchell...

Etc, etc.

So, I feel great to see that feminism is really starting to get some traction in a lot of areas. There's still miles to go obvs, but I no longer feel like hiding under the duvet and telling the entire world to f-off like I used to!

But everyone is right, once you've seen it, you can't unsee it. But us open-eyed feministy types are able to open the eyes of others and I know that my partner spots things and tells me about them. So it is not futile. It is very positive to have the scales fall.