The hard left's problem with women

[KarlosKKrinkelbeim]

Looking at front page of the Times listing those labour MPs being targeted by momentum for deselection and idly wondering; why do most of them seem to be women - and in particular, women with string track records on feminist issues? I mean Stella Creasy for gods sake? I'm not a labour voter I admit but how could anyone vote for a party who deselected a woman of her calibre?
Is it me or do these people have a problem?

I agree MostlyBowling about the "exception" thing but it is interesting how it happens. Remember Blair's Babes? I thought it was great 20 years ago, makes me kind of cringe now.

If you read what I said, Thatcher/May are not like most women or men. They are not like most people full stop. They are not personable people, so I think it's misogynistic for them to be selected. The stereotypically 'nasty men' who ever get into power in the Tory Party never seem to lead it or if they do, never seem to win elections e.g. Ian Duncan Smith/Michael Howard. Why is that? David Cameron/John Major ...they were people with social skills why do the Tories only allow female leaders that don't have these?

and when I say I can imagine having a discussion with Warsi etc I don't mean about tights and flowers I mean political discussion. Could anyone imagine having a political discussion with May?

So a woman should be personable to lead a party? Gordon Brown wasn't, or Ed Milliband but nobody ever accused them of not being men.

If you read what I said, Thatcher/May are not like most women or men. They are not like most people full stop. They are not personable people, so I think it's misogynistic for them to be selected

That doesn't make your argument any better. Any person who reaches the heights of being prime minister presumably has characteristics which the average person in the street. All you are doing is finding a different way of saying - that Theresa May, she's not a nice woman.

and when I say I can imagine having a discussion with Warsi etc I don't mean about tights and flowers I mean political discussion. Could anyone imagine having a political discussion with May?

Are you serious? She is the longest serving Home Secretary and you can't imagine having a political discussion with her? You are perfectly entitled to dislike her and her policies but you are making up nonsense now.

To be honest if there is a misogynistic mindset it is in your posts - particularly that ridiculous comment about not being able to discuss politics.

So a woman should be personable to lead a party? Gordon Brown wasn't, or Ed Milliband but nobody ever accused them of not being men

I know. What a load of tosh. Heath wasn't personable. Sturgeon tries to be but isn't. Cameron on the other hand is charming and I'm sure would be good fun if you were sitting next to him at a dinner.

All completely irrelevant as to whether or not they are good politicians and leaders.

lass you are making inferences that are just not there and I'm not even going to waste my time replying.

Presumably because you can't think of any sensible reply to defend the "I can't imagine having a political discussion with Theresa May" comment.

Imagine if a man had written that. Poor ickle Theresa - she can talk about tights and flowers but not real stuff like politics.

You've seen her on TV surely? Or not as she point blank refused to debate with anyone- how much more evidence is necessary for 'can't have a political discussion?'

Refusing to engage in a television debate is no evidence whatsoever.

You don't like her - fine. No problem with that. But to suggest any person who has gone through the process of selection to be a candidate for a mainstream party, won her seat, was selected by her party leader for ministerial and shadow ministerial posts, has been the longest serving Home Secretary and was chairman of her party is incapable of holding a political discussion is nonsense.

Feminist has never really been left wing, so it's not surprising that there's a clash. The interventionist state is quite masculinist really, while open markets, careerism and 'egalitarian' economic structures are much more conducive to women's liberation in a sense. Hence, the deregulation of markets and the movement of women out of the home into the labour market have progressed in direct parallel.

Margaret Thatcher is routinely disowned by feminists, but really she was the best thing that ever happened for feminism. By destroying subsidised industry she disempowered men on a massive scale and undermined the nuclear family that confined women to the home.

Look at any chart showing average pay, and you'll see a gradual decrease in male pay and correspondent rise in female pay from the early 1980s.

Feminism has never really been left wing.

It is controversial to cite Margaret thatcher as a feminist influence, but as a child growing up in the 80s, she was, for me, enormously influential in my thinking about the role of women. As was having a mother who worked and earned the bulk of our family income. In our society money equals power and we do no favours to women by pretending otherwise, or that sacrificing earning power in favour of child rearing does not involve significant loss of autonomy.
None of the above is very left wing, you are quite right.