I'm fucking sick of male violence

[QuentinSummers]

This poor little boy, saying sorry and still getting beaten to death
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40522224
And we will have to all act like this is a random piece of bad luck as opposed to some absolute evil fucking man who's been taught by society that it's ok to use your physical strength to assert dominance over others.
Stop the world, I want to get off.

but living in a world where it does and can happen always hands me something of an advantage in my dealings with women

You are a seriously odd person. You always think of yourself having an advantage over women in your 'dealings' with them because you'd probably come out on top in a fight ?

Men have always got the advantage over women cad. That is how privilege works.

This has been a very stimulating thread for me. There is epidemic of anxiety and depression which mostly affects women. Cbt - lauded and promoted by the nhs - says 'Don't worry! You are not in danger!' and 'Feelings are not facts' and I think hmm.

I don't really want some bloke telling me I'm not in danger, that my feelings in this misogynistic society are not valid, that the very real concern that I'm statistically most likely to be attacked in my own home by someone I know is not a real 'fact'.

(At the same time we are told 'trust your intuition' and god forbid if you 'had a feeling' that someone was not to be trusted and you were attacked by them it would be your fault.)

But my life is being sucked away by agoraphobia and that is doing me no favours. It's hard to know how to live.

In a radical feminist/separatist world would I be afraid to go outside?

Can I also point out how utterly and disappointingly pathetic I find it that men's response to the abject misery and suffering caused by their fellow men is almost always 'I didn't do it, not my problem'? How are men not ashamed of that response?

Don't know if that's aimed at me because of my response but I certainly don't think it's not my problem - for a start I have daughters (one of whom has been a victim of terrible male violence), a wife, a mother, sisters, sons who may be victims, and I myself have been a victim - I absolutely think everyone has to be part of the solution, but that doesn't extend to accepting guilt. And your post summarises why I felt the need to use the phrase "rounded on for sharing the same anatomy as this monster". To paraphrase David Cameron, "it's not enough to be innocent", you're supposed to feel guilt and shame regardless.

Cad I think Dervel's point went right between your ears

You're quoting David Cameron? The guy who set Britain's future on fire and ran away?? Interesting choice. I doubt he feels an ounce of guilt for anything.

Regardless no one said anything about guilt. Your response to a very sad thread about horrific male violence was 'don't make me feel bad' which about sums up the whole problem really

I don't really want some bloke telling me I'm not in danger, that my feelings in this misogynistic society are not valid, that the very real concern that I'm statistically most likely to be attacked in my own home by someone I know is not a real 'fact'.

It's been pointed out a couple of times lately that there is a huge difference in the state's and general public's response to terrorist atrocities and to what is effectively the terrorism that women and girls have to accept on a daily basis.

In a radical feminist/separatist world would I be afraid to go outside?

- I absolutely think everyone has to be part of the solution, but that doesn't extend to accepting guilt.
Noone says you have to accept guilt I don't think. There is a vast amount of ground between "I'm a man so I'm guilty" and "I'm a man but I'm not like that so I wash my hands of it".
Your first thought is to make this thread about your hurt feelings. That is not a bigger problem than a man beatongoing a child to death because he felt annoyed.

All men benefit from male violence because no-one knows which ones are going to actually go there. And most men use that to their advantage, even if it's only once every 5 years or something. So, nothing will really change. Because that's another thing that feminists want to make men give up, along with their free time they are entitled to whilst exploiting the labour of women at home.

I'll never forget a thread on here that was on this very theme and a male poster was getting all het up about how he was a lovely sensitive soul and we shouldn't tar him with the the violent man brush. Then said of course he would challenge other men on their insensivity towards women because he was lovely and all up with how bad it is for them and used the example of threatening to beat the shit out of his daughter's boyfriend if he raised a fist to her.

Hehehe

Quentin - "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them [or hurt their feelings]; women are afraid that men will kill them"

I'm a man. I had no idea. That sounds awful. What can I do to help?

Would be nice. (Not you Derv).

cadnowyllt I am without question a seriously odd person, so guilty as charged.

However no I don't go into every interaction with women thinking anything like how I could come out on top in a physical altercation. In fact I don't think the though has ever crossed my mind once. What I was trying to shine a light on is the background in which all interactions between men and women operate on.

For example a lone woman is far less likely to come up and criticise me, if say I was in her way or some such. Also take the traditional role of getting women home safely, I've done it so many times in so many contexts I wouldn't be able to say how many. I've even done it a few times for men who were particularly timid. However most individuals see that as a "nice thing" and invariably it falls under interpersonal interactions where people will feel the need to reciprocate, thus advantage which was what I am trying to get at.

The actual reality of the situation at least for me is that if something bad happened to any man, woman or child I'd just been with I'd feel rightly or wrongly that I hadn't done all I could if I hadn't taken steps to ensure they got home safely after a night out or whatever. So I mainly do it to satisfy a neurosis in my own head, but even if I explain that to people they usually don't get it. In a way they are actually doing me a favour as I won't worry.

I've stood up to male violence several times in my life and it always scares the shit out of me. However the one time I came off particularly worse and got stabbed (luckily it was only superficial)! There was this absolute angel of a woman who cleaned me up, sorted me out when I was quite shaken and embarrassed, so if anything my attitudes since have been trying to pay that kindness forward.

However my point still stands being a non-violent man in a world with too many violent ones confers tremendous social advantage, especially with women.

For those who said there's a spectrum.

For those who said most men wash their hands of any responsibility.

For those who called out the victim blamers.

This story from Australia proves you right, unfortunately.

amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/women-shouldnt-have-to-play-cool-even-at-a-sporting-match-20170704-gx44k0.html

I think the only odd person here is that "cadnowylly" individual who is seriously concerning.

You're quoting David Cameron? The guy who set Britain's future on fire and ran away?? Interesting choice. I doubt he feels an ounce of guilt for anything.

I'm quoting an offensive thing he said, I'm not quoting him as some sort of nice person, quite the opposite. "The full quote is "For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone." I was drawing a parallel with that here, because it's not enough for a man to be innocent of any wrongdoing, we are supposed to be ashamed and "take a look ourselves in the mirror" regardless of whether we have done anything.

Regardless no one said anything about guilt. Your response to a very sad thread about horrific male violence was 'don't make me feel bad' which about sums up the whole problem really

I was responding to a specific post which said "Men act like the men who commit these acts are an aberration and nothing to do with them!" which clearly rejects any such distinction between the men who commit the acts and the men who don't. It then went on to say that men need to take a look at themselves in the mirror.

I think it's perfectly natural to have a reaction to that, when you feel you are being blamed for horrific things that make your own blood run cold, that you need to look at yourself in the mirror because things are happening that fill you with horror just like they do everyone else. And if you try to point out that this man was an aberration people like you call you pathetic. You're against male violence, I'm against male violence, but it seems like it's you vs me even though we should be on the same side. And since you mentioned it, why should someone feel like it's ok to make someone feel bad for something they didn't do?

Your first thought is to make this thread about your hurt feelings

No, my first thought was probably just like yours. I'm not an alien species.

However, when I read a post that rejects the distinction between criminal and innocent men I chose to challenge it.

Slarti

There's not a woman on here who doesn't understand what you're saying. Of course you are not a violent child abuser.

No one is blaming you, personally or specifically for the horrorific things that some men do.

But men being violent to women is a logical extension of casual sexism. Women know this down to their very soul.

Will all sexiest men turn violent? No. Will all violent men be sexist? Yes.

Sexism is how it starts. And most men, however lovely, will be on the sexist 'spectrum'. It's ingrained. Male socialisation.

It's as ingrained as it is for lone women who get into a lift with a man and will quite subconsciously, just check him out. A radar sweep that takes less than a nanosecond while they are pressing the button.

We have no way of telling what kind of man he is. And often the radar sweep will deceive us. But we do it anyway. It's ingrained. Female socialisation.

So you can distance yourself from 'those men' of course. But it doesn't help. Having hurt feelings about the possibility of being mistaken for one of those men, doesn't help. Asking women to respect that, doesn't help.

So, don't help. But don't expect to be forgiven for that and made to feel better about your feelings.

This is a thread about male violence and how to stop it.

Can you help?

And if you try to point out that this man was an aberration people like you call you pathetic.
That's the thing though. He wasn't an aberration. The vast vast majority of people who die from violence do so at the hands of a man.
Men are violent. How do we fix that?

Delurking after many years because male violence, and society's refusal to acknowledge its all pervasiveness, is an issue that I've been thinking about lots recently. For example, here (I live overseas) there is a strong rugby culture. It's typically seen as a 'good thing' and so no one wants to acknowledge the link between match nights and surges in domestic violence. But when home teams lose unexpectedly the research shows that more women and children get battered.

In response to the question how do we fix the problem, is the first step to persuade wider society (men) the problem actually exists? Maybe a Twitter/media campaign where every single act of male violence is called out as exactly that. #MaleViolence or similar - a sort of consciousness raising about the single common denominator in all of these horrible acts. Because until the common cause is acknowledged (by men) I don't see how, as a society, we can begin to fix it?

Will all sexiest men turn violent? No. Will all violent men be sexist? Yes

This, in a nutshell, is it. Absolutely and completely. Men who have no respect for women are part of the problem, even if they're not violent themselves. Permissive attitudes towards casual sexism make it ok for abusers to abuse.

Exactly. And a permissive attitude towards casual sexism is not a neutral position.

So either get on board and help or accept that you are perpetuating the problem.

Dervel

I am without question a seriously odd person, so guilty as charged. However no I don't go into every interaction.........

Mmm...that old slight of hand, enter a plea of guilty and then deny and defend against the charge in mitigation. So not guilty as charged then.

I explain that to people they usually don't get it.

I'd definitely been in that particular category. Whilst I don't think that its that unusually to be helping people as you describe - certainly I've been and done that (as it were), and I would feel awful if they weren't OK in the end. I don't think I'd be having anything akin to a neurosis about it.

However my point still stands being a non-violent man in a world with too many violent ones confers tremendous social advantage, especially with women.

You appear to live quite an awful existence where a violent response from men might be on the cards at any time. Do you live in a 'deprived' area ?

You appear to live quite an awful existence where a violent response from men might be on the cards at any time. Do you live in a 'deprived' area ?

I think you've got something there Cad. To escape male violence all we have to do is move to a leafy suburb.

Genius.

I couldn't agree more with all of the threads above. It's something that has bothered me for a long time, as I've always felt that a lot of the violence in the world - war, terrorism in addition to domestic violence - have their roots in male violence and macho posturing.

I honestly can't think how it would be possible to globally change the mind-set and violent predilections of millions of men though. I know part of it will be the background they have been raised in, but for others it just seems ingrained even if they come from a background where thy have had good role models and they have just turned out that way.

It is simplistic but I do think a lot of men's aggressive behaviour literally boils down to testosterone. They have loads of it, we women only have the tiniest fraction that they do. I've read in the past about women who had to take testosterone for medical reasons and how dramatically it changed their personalities, making them more aggressive and sexualised (this is from interviews from some women only). I don't know how you would begin to tackle that in men.