Something I just thought about the whole 'Brain sex' theory.

[TinyRick]

So if the body is 'male' and the brain is 'female' from birth then why didn't the 'female' brain develop estrogen and secondary sex characteristics for the 'male' body? (Obviously vice versa too for FtT)

Are they saying their brain is actually wrong and stupid? Even though they profess the opposite?

I have a question... why do you lot care?

Because our privacy and our safety is taken from us.

Use your brain for just five seconds, please.

I do not want to be perved on by a male while I shower, change clothes or go to the toilet.

But you want to force me.You want males to have a legal right to look at my naked body whenever I dare go out in public and do normal things that I should have the freedom to do, like bathing in a public pool.

This is what you want, this is what you stand for. You want women in prisons be made to be locked up with males who might well be convicted rapists.

I despise you and your allies.

You should be ashamed of yourself, very ashamed. The blood of all women who are harmed by males in women's prisons is on your hands.

THEIR BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS; YOU HATE WOMEN. YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR WOMEN.

Shame on you.

And the brain sex idiocy has been used to justify the oppression of women for thousands of years.

Really, it is beyond stupid to ask why we care.

AddictedToDrPepper

I'm not sure you understand what feminism is. It's absolutely not about treating everyone the same.

If it was we would be advocating for 117 million boy babies to be a aborted before they are born. We would be agreeing that three men a week should be killed by their partner. We would be urging men to take a 20% pay cut. We would be chopping off male genitals so they never enjoy sex, we would be selling little boys to 50-year-old women under the guise of marriage, and suggesting they are killed if they marry outside their religion.

Women globally live under a patriarchy.

Feminism is for these women and about these women.

It doesn't include men.

Men are considered when they want to force themselves into women's spaces and women say no.

My question to you is what don't you understand about the word no?

Or are you one of those people who thinks no sometimes means yes.

Dervel

It's great that you have supported your friend. And I totally understand the conflict over belief.

Not wanting to be seen as a bigot and wanting to be liberal seems to me to be a very thin disguise for allowing one to be sexist these days.

If they are smart, and you point out the conflict between the trans-ideology and women's rights and they still don't agree. What is at play here? Their ego. What is it called when a man's ego allows him to agree with the erosion of women's rights?

Sexism at best, misogyny at worst.

Keep plugging away. Because they will soon be seen as not liberal, but chauvinistic and naive.

They're people too and they're damn well entitled to live their lives without being judged.

This never ceases to amaze me. Why do people think they shouldn't be judged?

Do we not judge paedophiles, murderers, thieves? Do we not judge spite, or users, or cruelty?

People judge all the time! Women are judged on their looks, parenting skills, clothes.

And yes I judge. When a man doesn't understand the meaning of the word no and demands I pick apart my reasons so he can justify overruling me, damn right I judge.

The trick is to not judge a person, but judge their actions. If a broadly speaking decent person commits a bad action they don't deserve a pass just cos they are usually good. Besides if a good person fucks up they will take the feedback, reflect on it, apologise and make amends.

A broadly bad one who did one vaguely decent thing once isn't exonerated from all the shitty things they do.

We shouldn't in the least be afraid of criticism and negative judgements. We should in an ideal world embrace it and self-improve.

This is actually something that holds men in particular back from embracing the entirety of our humanity. We do live in a world where men are shielded from an awful lot of criticism. This stunts our growth and our potential.

Well yes, I broadly agree with that Derval. And, at the risk of repeating myself, it's not about me hating trans people. It's not about individuals.

It's about an ideology that I profoundly disagree with. If someone is a proponent of it, I will disagree with them over that.

Perhaps if we didn't classify so many things as male/female it would all be irrelevant

For what it's worth I'll stand with you on this. I haven't actually seen what I'd identify as any actual hate towards trans individuals from any feminists.

Derval

Have you seen this? I may have already posted it.

It's a website that just cuts-and-pastes what TRAs say. I admit, the women are so fucking over it it's not even funny.

But does highlight the rank misogyny.

It's also worth noting that they have been shut down twice. Two other gender critical sites have also been shut down. You can no longer say the word dyke on Facebook without getting shutdown.

www.facebook.com/Exposing-Trans-Activists-1962284500669200/

Vestal you are hilarious I happen to be a female who doesn't believe every man, or every woman who was born a male, is going to perv on you in the shower. I happen to know that some of them just want to live their life without idiots like yourself becoming hysterical over your perceived ability to turn on every male within a 50 mile radius.

Look at it this way: there is a person who is suicidal because they are not who they should be. That person was born with the wrong set of genitalia. That person has never harmed so much as a fly in their life let alone a woman. They have never so much as attempted to peek at a females ankles, let alone any higher, without the females permission. And that person at some stage in their life transitions into a female to make themselves happy. Not so they can force themselves into what you class as a female space, not so that they can perv on other women, not so that they can try and force themselves upon anyone but so they can live their lives feeling at peace with themselves. What is so wrong about that?

If you judged every trans female as the same then surely we should judge every female the same. Perhaps we should judge ourselves all as hysterical as Vestal. Would you be happy with that?

Datun for me feminism means equality. That's all. Equal rights, equal pay, equal opportunities. For both men and women. I have a son and daughter, I'm currently pregnant with another boy. I want them all to grow up having the same rights and respect, the same opportunities. I don't want any of them to fear violence or hatred, and I want all of them to be free to be able to be whoever they want to be.

They will all be raised to be be confident, good people. To never hurt or take advantage of anyone. To respect others, to be kind and caring and loving.

Also, here is the definition on feminism:

feminism
ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: feminism
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

Please note the equality of the sexes part. If you want womens rights to be the same as mens that means that women are considered equal. Which means men would also be equal. Everyone would have the same rights and be treated the same.

AddictedToDrPepper

I do understand what you're saying. And I admire the fact that you are bringing your children up to see the sexes as equal.

However that cannot be done, it simply cannot, unless men stop treating women as second-class.

98% all sexual and violent crime is committed by men. This is something that people just take in their stride. Why? Why are women subjected to objectification, honour killings, FGM, male dictated abortion, period poverty, etc.

You have posted on the feminist boards. If you do not agree that we live under a chauvinist society, then I can't really help. It's the basic tenet of feminism.

In terms of transwomen, the ideology reinforces and underpins sex role stereotypes. Men do not worry about this, because the sexual stereotypes are beneficial for them. It only really affects women.

Gender roles are in detrimental to women. Women are meant to be nurturing, passive, accommodating, fuckable, pretty, good mothers, run the house, etc.

Transwomen reinforce this. They do not say I am man who can present a woman. They say if I present, think and act as a woman, i.e. gender stereotypes, that means I must be a woman.

They have a lady brain. Something that is demonstrably not true and also something that feminists (and to be honest most women) have been trying to discard for generations.

That is the abstract. The philosophical. The ideology.

In practice, women are being threatened with rape and violence if they so much as even question the trans ideology.

Men, who say they are women, telling women that they are cunts and need to get cancer and their children need to die. Because women say that biology is a fact and you can't change sex.

If you don't know this, may I suggest that you have simply not been exposed to it. Understandably.

It's not fringe. It's not in a corner of the dark web. It's splashed, wholesale, online everywhere.

80% of transwomen do not have genital surgery and remain attracted to women. Coupled with the fact that many find cross dressing arousing, it is obviously a problem for women if they demand to share their spaces.

The transwomen who remain attracted to men, are nowhere near the same kind of problem. They want to live under the radar, they are not interested in accessing women and girls and they do not agree with the transactivist rhetoric.

Unfortunately, they are being thrown under the bus at the same time as women. They are known as truscum by transactivists.

And lastly, may I ask you to define the word woman?

Culturally, socially and most importantly, legally, you can't do it.

And I would just like to add, that laws are being changed on the basis of this. It's not something that women can ignore. Unless they think they are really second-class.

If you want womens rights to be the same as mens that means that women are considered equal. Which means men would also be equal. Everyone would have the same rights and be treated the same.

No. Not when there isn't a level playing field. These things don't happen in a vacuum.

That person has never harmed so much as a fly in their life let alone a woman. They have never so much as attempted to peek at a females ankles, let alone any higher, without the females permission.

That your average autogynephile? I don't think so. There is plenty of evidence that transgender identified males commit violent crime to the same extent as other males.

It is a definite boundary violation for a male person to want to invade the private space of females against their wishes. And that is a massive red flag for further actions of this nature. You might think we're hysterical (nice way to belittle women's concerns) but I personally think you're very naive. The typical unthinking clueless virtue signaller. You are damaging women's rights by enabling this.

Don't you have any empathy for women's feelings? Survivors of rape and domestic violence who need to feel safe, Muslim women who won't be able to use public space any more? Do only those of males matter?

Don't you have any empathy for women's feelings? Survivors of rape and domestic violence who need to feel safe, Muslim women who won't be able to use public space any more? Do only those of males matter?

Of course. To that kind of person, males are the only real people. The only real objects of empathy and kindness and understanding.

Women are second class citizens, at best. Not really human. No need to listen to us.

Killing a woman is better than hurting a man's feelings. (Which is quite obvious in the many death threats against women that male trans spout online - the good trans allies finds those quite justified, after all those evil "terfs" hurt the male's feelings. And that is worse than murdering a woman.

DrPepper, I'm interested in why you picked the word "hysterical" - a word that is generally used to belittle women. I do think it's interesting that you have so little empathy for other women's feelings (dismissing them as idiots) but boundless empathy for the difficulties of trans women. Have you ever thought about why you find it so easy to think about how difficult life is for them, but harder to empathise with women who are worried about this rights conflict where we're told we're bigots for wanting spaces reserved only for female bodied people?

AddictedToDrPepper

I missed this.

They have never so much as attempted to peek at a females ankles, let alone any higher, without the females permission.

Firstly for or someone who is trying to raise their children equally, your tone is very dismissive of women. It's understandable because many women automatically put men first. It's ingrained and your posts highlight it.

In terms of transwomen, have you never heard of autogynephilia? Transvestite cross dressing fetish, in old money.

Almost every late transitioning male who remains attracted to women, will fit the profile. It's a particularly detrimental fetish for women because it relies on the feeling of subjugation and humiliation the person thinks is a woman's natural state (cissification).

The mere act of you validating their womanhood is arousing.

I suggest you google it, it's often called female embodiment fantasy, or cross dreaming. There are many websites devoted to it and porn is a significant driver.

You might also google the cotton ceiling. A play on the glass ceiling. The cotton refers to the gusset in women's underwear. The premise is to be able to break through it.

It is used by men identifying as women who want to sleep with lesbians. They remain attracted to women and getting a lesbian to sleep with them is the ultimate validation that they are, in fact, women.

The definition of a lesbian is a woman who is same sex attracted, not same gender attracted. Many lesbians are persecuted for not wanting to sleep with someone with a penis.

Take a look at videos by Riley J Dennis. A heterosexual man, identifying as a woman, who says that homosexual preferences are transphobic. He is retained and paid by Everyday Feminism. Which should tell you exactly how far women will go to accommodate men.

Magdelen Burns, a lesbian, dissects his videos, so you don't have to.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, because you just sound uninformed, rather than uncaring, I urge you to find out more about why the trans ideology is misogynistic at its core and is, indeed, harmful to women.

And lastly, I would ask you to think about why feminists object to it. Feminists are analysts. Not bigots.

And lastly, I would ask you to think about why feminists object to it. Feminists are analysts. Not bigots.

Exactly. We mostly all started off unconditionally supportive of the trans agenda. What a number was played on us.

Firstly for or someone who is trying to raise their children equally, your tone is very dismissive of women. It's understandable because many women automatically put men first. It's ingrained and your posts highlight it.

YY.

AddictedToDrPepper, you appear to be misinterpreting your own definition of feminism which you posted as the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

Nowhere in that definition does it say that feminism is about equality for all.

It specifically states that feminism advocates for women's rights. There is no mention of advocating for anyone else's rights. The part of the definition which mentions equality does so in order to state that the reason feminism advocates for women's rights is a belief in equality of the sexes - ergo we understand that women are not currently treated according to the value of equality of the sexes.

Feminism has never been about making sure men are ok. Please read and think about the definition you posted - it doesn't say what you claim / appear to think.

As for the trans stuff and "why do we care?" - I suggest you read more and think more about that too. Especially autogynephilia.

Everyone would have the same rights and be treated the same.

And feminism isn't about this either. It isn't as simplistic as "treating everyone the same". It's about treating everyone with the same respect and humanity and justness despite our differences. Indeed "treating everyone the same" is often the argument of anti-feminists. Women and men are not the same - feminism fights for the belief that different does not mean inferior / superior.

Try having ASD and being told you have an "extreme male brain" FFS. I don't have a male brain, I am a bisexual woman.

(There's also studies that found that trans brains, while more resembling other brains of people of the same sex than brains of people of the other sex, also most resembled the brains of people with anorexia - can't remember all if it, but I assume it was only dysphoric trans people)

This is interesting, because high levels of autistic traits and ASD have been found in girls and women who have received a diagnosis of "anorexia".

Also interesting is the fact that people with ASD very often struggle with society's ideas about gender and sexuality. The only trans people I've ever met have also been autistic, and I've met many people with ASD and autistic traits through LGBT groups. But I'm not sure if that's something about autistic brains, or whether it's that autistic people are less likely to conform to societal bullshit around gender and sexuality.