Is John McEnroe right about Serena?

[MercuryMadness]

I know nowt about tennis but from watching bits here and there, I cannot believe McEnroe is right. Serena looks so powerful and masterful with the ball.

I can see her giving lots of male professionals a fucking drubbing.

Is he really right?

Billie Jean King beat a 55 yr old ex tennis pro when she was 29, in a challenge match for money. He had been considered the No 1 tennis player for a couple of years in the 1940s, the match was in 1973. She beat him quite comprehensively.

So what if he is? It's not a relevant point in my opinion.

That was my thought when I read it in the paper today. "Men generally have more physical strength than women" is hardly a headline, I wouldn't have thought.

I did wonder about VestalVirgin's point and whether anyone in the media would mention trans women in regard to this. But of course not. Because if you think you're a woman, then you have a woman's body dontcha know .

Why do we let men lay this number on us? How many times have you heard a woman challenge a man to give birth or breastfeed? Never. Because that's a game they can't win. So it has absolutely no value to them in competitive terms. Men's bodies are designed to be stronger and faster but that's not better unless you literally only think stronger and faster counts.

Now obviously in sport strength and speed matter but they are not the only things. There is also physical grace, dexterity, nimbleness which women do better. Ask Nadia Comaneci.

Now try combining speed, strength , dexterity, tactics and carrying a whole other human being at the same time ....

What's the point in saying it, except to get to get attention? He was always an attention seeking prick, albeit entertaining. I reckon it's because he has just discovered his pubes are turning grey

AssassinatedBeauty thank you for clearing that up

think Serena would be maybe top 100 if she played against men

Back in the day Serena and Venus played a male player in the top 200, about to drop to about 350 (due to some points thing I don't understand.)

He beat both of them, 6-1 and 6-2 in a one set match, one after the other.

www.theguardian.com/observer/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

From the male player's wiki

Braasch competed in a "Battle of the Sexes" contest against the Williams sisters (Venus and Serena) at the 1998 Australian Open when he was ranked 203. A decade and a half older than the sisters, Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centred around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager".[2] He nonetheless defeated both sisters, playing a single set against each, beating Serena 6–1 and Venus 6–2.[3]

I don't think it means women's tennis is less exciting, interesting or good. It's just blokes have a big physical advantage when pitted against a female.

It doesn't matter whether Serena would be beaten by a man - any man- because she doesn't play against men competitively. Like most of the top women she will play against men in practice precisely because she is so powerful that against men she can get a better workout than she would against pretty much any other woman. Andre Agassi mentiins playing against Steffi for fun in his autobiography and comments that he had always wanted to be on the receiving end of her forehand just to know what it felt like. That's respect.

There are very few sports where men and women can compete on equal terms and where they do, the requirement is usually for skill not strength or speed. Nobody denies that generally speaking women do not have the physical power of men, the so-called debate is meaningless.

McEnroe is a dick. Serena is a great great sportswoman.

Maybe we should start judging McEnroe on equally unfair terms?

If McEnroe had to grow a baby in his uterus he'd be, like, 700th in the world.

If McEnroe had to dance in a Beyonce video he'd be, like, 700th in the world.

chumpchange I'm old enough to remember all the hoohah about trans tennis player Renee Richards

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renée_Richards

Back in the day when Chris Evert was married to John Lloyd. She was world number one, he was not in the top 100 males (I believe). I remember she said she could not train against him, because he was too powerful.

I never understand this constant comparison between the William's sisters and men players. It's a completely false, non sensical comparison.

Fuck sake, there is a REASON that male and female sports are segregated. Why are we even talking about this? McEnroe is running out of money and needs a new job commentating.

It is a ridiculous comparison as "women's tennis" is a specific discipline. It is a category in the game. It is like saying a heavyweight boxer is better than a bantam weight boxer because he would beat him to pulp. It can be applied to any sport with categories - athletics, weightlifting, judo. He is wrong to create a false set-up which invited unwanted critique of SW. And going by the comments online which one should never read his rambling speculation has invited some extremely sexist and hateful comments about her.

People can't wait to have a pop at the Williams sisters, much of it appallingly racist as well as misogynist. They have the temerity to be successful black women.

Just googled "who has won the most tennis grand slams" and google says it's Roger Federer with 18, despite Serena Williams winning 23.

I think the only reason why people have argued that women's tennis is inferior is because they play 3 rounds to the mens 5 rounds.
This was the argument why they should be paid less, not that they are inferior in any way.
It's a different game and can't be treated the same.
It doesn't make men better, they just play more games.

He's correct but it's kind of pointless.
They're different sports, it's akin to the mayweather v mcgrehor arguments at the moment.
It's a spectacle to see them face off but realistically mcgregor wouldn't stand a chance against ang boxer in the top 200. Doesn't mean he's not great at his own sport.

In nearly all competitions men play 3 sets too. It's only the grand slams where they play 5. Every time this comes up I just think, well, make the women play 5 sets (or the men 3) at those competitions and everyone can stop whinging about it.

There are other reasons why some people like to bang on about the women's game (in any sport really) being inferior, and it's not to do with the length of the matches. More to do with their dislike of women.

Today 22:39 thatstoast

Just googled "who has won the most tennis grand slams" and google says it's Roger Federer with 18, despite Serena Williams winning 23. confused

That's breathtaking.

If McEnroe had to grow a baby in his uterus he'd be, like, 700th in the world.

Um, no.

He'd be, like, ... I'd have to look up what the estimated current world population is and calculate how many of that are girls and women between 14 and 44, but he'd not be 700th, not by far.

Meh, Serena is fabulous and McEnroe is just trying to keep up his profile

Not sure if he is right unless he's talking about pregnant Serena rather than peak. However just wanted to qualify the battle of the sexes game thing. Definitely think the top men would win but the game they played was in 98 and when they had only just come onto the pro scene and before they had hot they're peak (possibly 4 or 5 years before Serena had) so while interesting possibly not conclusive.

In the grand scheme of things though does it matter.

It really is enormously tedious when Serena Williams, arguably the greatest athlete the game has ever seen, is used to make tedious non- points by aging has beens trying to drum up interest in their latest book .

You cannot be serious, McEnroe.

People can't wait to have a pop at the Williams sisters, much of it appallingly racist as well as misogynist. They have the temerity to be successful black women

^ Exactly this. It's appallingly disingenuous.

They won't let the women play 5 sets because they don't have enough time - google it - it's been rejected for exactly that reason. Nothing to do with the women, and everything to do with physical time and space.

Now try combining speed, strength , dexterity, tactics and carrying a whole other human being at the same time

Yes, none of the top 100 men could win while pregnant could they :)

It's a spectacle to see them face off but realistically mcgregor wouldn't stand a chance against ang boxer in the top 200

Yep, since they're boxing. If they were doing MMA, it would likely go the other way (certainly other Boxer vs. MMA fighters has)

I prefer the weight class comparison Sean made above - same sport, but different physically, and no point comparing.

I'm glad that Serena tweeted back at him and basically told him to fuck off.

People can't wait to have a pop at the Williams sisters, much of it appallingly racist as well as misogynist. They have the temerity to be successful black women. Serena Williams is a rape apologist.