Nothing quite like online dating

[Ava5]

...to remind you how much of a radfem you are at heart.

Pages and pages full of profiles of smiling, unburdened men with high-flying careers and showy hobbies, strutting their peacock feathers. They all keep saying how they want world peace, and how much they're distressed by racism, world poverty and oppressed bunny rabbits. [sarcasm]

Not one has included sexism or any of its ubiquitous current contributors in that list. Not even lip service, let alone any kind of action in lieu of those super hip activities they post photos of (yeah, that 100th pic of a dude surfing gets me really hot ). No mention of volunteer work of any kind (almost all volunteers I've personally met are women). No mention of equal share of parenting of future children for those that want them. And this isn't even an exhaustive list of feminist peeves.

I've encountered a grand total of 1 feminist on a less upmarket site. What's really sad is that this is the best face these men are presenting of themselves. What makes them think that a display of them obliviously swimming in their privilege is conducive to attracting a female mate??[rhetorical question - i'm just venting]

Oh, I am quite happy they don't know how to attract women. They're being honest.

Nothing would be gained from them promising that they'd do an equal share of parenting when they wouldn't actually do that.

There's enough lying on online dating sites as is.

I get that it is frustrating that there's no eligible bachelors, but being single is better than being tricked into a relationship by a liar.

Perhaps you can try a different approach. I recently read a text by a very disillusioned radfem who decided trying to educate men was hopeless, and suggested we should try and fix the problem via evolution - selecting smaller and physically weaker men so male violence would do less harm in the future.

Of course, we are not likely to reap the benefits of that approach anytime soon, but it is an interesting thought.

What makes them think that a display of them obliviously swimming in their privilege is conducive to attracting a female mate??

Because it's probably effective in most cases?
I also think it's weird that you think they should mention future parenting. It's generally regarded that discussing future children on a first date is a massive no no, male or female, so to mention it on a dating profile?
I can almost image the AIBU or Relationship thread now, about how presumptive men are talking about future children in a dating ad, like they are just looking for a walking womb or something .

I stay well clear of online dating, it all seems so, superficial? Then again, and I think this is true of both men and women
; the attributes and character traits you need to attract a potential partner are often in an entirely different category to the attributes and traits you need to make a relationship flourish and thrive.

Whilst those two things are not in alignment the whole of human romantic endeavours will remain a minefield.

I think it's quite telling that they rarely mention opposition to misogyny/sexism yet do speak of other forms of oppression. This is something I've noticed from some as well; (rightly) appalled by racism etc but see no issue with sexist comments and so forth. I think Corbyn spoke out condemning the DUP for LGBT issues this week but hasn't said anything at all about their staunch anti-abortion position (I hope I'm wrong but have read that from a few people). Women's rights and equality seem to be so far down the list of priorities even to many on the left which renders them easy to be cast aside.

Sorry what? Why would someone mention parenting of future children that would only scare off most people.

It's online dating everyone wants to show themselves and attractive and fun try looking at women's profile just as many cliché duck faces, the same looking downwards at an angle camera shots, the same interests etc

If you don't like what's on the quality of men or what the majority of them like you are free to look elsewhere they don't owe you anything

Hi Ava - I met my fiancé on an online dating website so while I can't speak for anyone else I do have some personal experience.

I don't think it's necessarily the case that an absence of chat around future parenting or male privilege on these people's online dating profiles necessarily means that these issues are not important to them. (Clearly it won't be important to some or perhaps even many of them, I'm not saying that either.)

Really when you are creating a profile, all the advice which is also bourne out by my experience is to keep it light. Your profile is really just a way to generate a bit of interest and also give "hooks" that the other person can use in any message to you ("I see you like northern lights, what did you think of the subtle knife?")

That being said, if all a guy has on his profile is pictures of himself topless on the beach, then I think you are quite right to make inferences from that about his personality and you may well conclude that it is unlikely to be worth your time messaging or replying. The good thing about OLD is there is always another profile which might be of more interest to you.

I think it's premature to talk about parenting of future children in an online dating profile! But it would be interesting if a woman were to say "I've got a feminist outlook"; I wonder how many men would be turned away by that, and if the right one would respond positively. And would any man dare to say "I try not to be sexist" (or whatever the poor fellow could actually say) and should any woman trust him if he did?

Ha I'd be happy with the above op, OLD it awful. Stupid profiles are the least of it.

Just to clarify: I'm not actually dating. I'm looking for a good FWB arrangement. I'm doing that on dating sites because I don't want to even dip my toe into the filth of hook-up ones. I'm too much of a cynic and too ill (chronic fatigue) to actually date. I just need sex and small doses of civilised male company.

So far I've found one shockingly well-mannered, pleasant-looking man who seems perfect for the job, but I have yet to meet him to verify it.

And I put it to him straight and he's OK with the set-up I desire.

I don't think it's premature to talk of future children if you've indicated that you want them. Kids are a lifelong project. A guy could simply state:
"I believe in equal parenting, in whichever way we agree on and choose to set it up."

"And would any man dare to say "I try not to be sexist" (or whatever the poor fellow could actually say) and should any woman trust him if he did?"

I would trust him if there was more detail. That one fellow I mentioned said that he was raised by feminists and he's constantly on the look-out for women's issues as part of his general social justice interest. And he put it on his profile, not said so in chat privately.

"Hi Ava - I met my fiancé on an online dating website"

Congratulations! I'm glad that it does work for some women.

Well, that dude fell through. He turned out to be just as nice as he seemed on paper (smart too), but the chemistry was zero. Back to the drawing board, sigh...

I guess the other thing that irks me is that men never set their age range more than a a couple of years above (if that), but significantly below. No wonder that middle-aged women +older struggle to find any interest at all..

Well, that dude fell through. He turned out to be just as nice as he seemed on paper (smart too), but the chemistry was zero
Do you need chemistry? I would have thought a FWB arrangement is better without chemistry.

I guess the other thing that irks me is that men never set their age range more than a a couple of years above (if that), but significantly below this is true. It seems to be the way OLD has developed. My mates all late 40's/early 50's. Have a sort of ongoing competition on how young their current date is.

Do you need chemistry? I would have thought a FWB arrangement is better without chemistry.

In what way would it be better?

In what way would it be better?
Isn't a FWB a "random" you shag with no emotional connection?

I presume Ava means "sexual attraction" by "chemistry" (I'd always thought that was what most people meant by chemistry, but it seems DrMorbius has always taken it to mean "emotional connection" - so presumably it's not as obvious as I thought). But in that case, you could both be right but be at cross purposes - because sexual attraction is a must-have for a FWB arrangement, but DM is right that possibly emotional connection is not something you want (beyond liking the person and feeling a reasonable degree of respect for them as a human being).

I presume Ava means "sexual attraction" by "chemistry" (I'd always thought that was what most people meant by chemistry, but it seems DrMorbius has always taken it to mean "emotional connection"
If that's the case, I find it quite ironic that a man sees "chemistry" as an "emotional connection" and a women sees "sexual attraction" as chemistry. I wonder if this in any way representative?

Probably not representative, Dr. There tends to be far more overlap between the sexes than there is difference. (NB, I personally like my sex with emotional connection - but chemistry for me is that initial "phwoarr, fancy a bit of that" feeling, without which I wouldn't even bother to explore further. Or wouldn't have done back in the mist of prehistory when I was young and did dating/relationships).

I believe the "yoof of today" even have a terminology for those of us who like our sex with added emotional attachment - we are, apparently, "demisexuals". (Tumblr has a label for everything it seems).

Interesting M0stly. Would a person put that they are a demisexual in their profile? I would've thought that was quite limiting. Given that emotional attachment isn't always instant.

Or perhaps it's just a way of signifying you don't do one night stands?

Everything is so up front and on the table these days. I suppose that's a product of online hook ups though.

It's a means of weeding out people you don't think are suitable, I imagine.

God, what a faff. Bring back tea dances.

You would be amazed at how many strange options there are - grey sexual (which apparently does not mean someone like me who's started to find grey pubes), sapio-sexual (what in old money we used to call an intellectual snob)... you name it, there's a silly name for it.

I think "demi-sexual" is indeed a way of signalling you don't do one-night stands. Someone on here posted a brilliant spoof of coming out to your parents as demi-sexual: "Yes, mum, I know you were really looking forward to supporting me through all those rites of passage, like my first visit to the clap clinic, and, knowing how chatty you are and how you love meeting new people, seeing a different bloke at breakfast every morning for the whole duration of the summer holidays... but... I'm afraid... I'm not like that... I'm... oh god, this is so embarrassing... I just want to meet one person I feel special about and wait a while before shagging them. Are you terribly disappointed in me?"

Totally agree - bring back tea dances.

Even when I was young and dating, it was all a bit fraught. Nightclubs where you couldn't hear yourself think, much less stand a chance of conversing with someone.

Pubs and wine bars were a bit better. But then you always limited to the people therein, I suppose.

Given what a huge amount of time and thought dating takes up, you would think someone would have come up with something more effective by now.

My most effective relationships generally started in the traditional way - get rat-arsed, shag someone then mutually decide the next morning (while drinking full-fat coke to deal with the hangover) that maybe this one was worth giving it a go.

Online dating seems so horribly transactional - it's such a tick-box exercise (probably why I don't even bother any more).

I agree about online dating. It wasn't a thing when I was young. It seems massively hit and miss.

My son has done it. But the lack of context when picking somebody seems tends to lead to a high failure rate of an actual relationship.

In my experience, most people meet someone either through work, or through a friend of a friend. I wonder if having a virtual presence, where you can be in contact with an unlimited number of people, all of it based on a fairly superficial profile, makes people's expectations higher than they would be normally.

What I mean by FWB is in its literal sense - friend whom you have sex with regularly and spend a wee bit of time enjoying their company. Not a hook-up, or a random ONS. And not a romantic partner, because you have no emotional or social obligations to a FWB.

Putting it bluntly - I'm just a really horny person naturally. Unfortunately, I'm also extremely introverted, inexperienced AND suffer from chronic fatigue to top it off. I don't have the energy to date properly, and I barely drink, so the whole party/pub sexual scene is not an option. I don't see another way of getting any sexual contact other than finding a non-jerky man online that I can have an ongoing understanding with.

Yeah, I meant 'sexual chemistry'.