It’s still not easy being a trans child (Guardian article)

[Terfing]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/05/trans-child-schools-help-transition-prejudice

It's full of the usual BS, along with the usual amount of deleted comments... Is the Guardian ever going to publish the other side of this debate?

"The world has changed in the 30 years since I learned that the third of our four children wished to transition. She had been registered as male at birth and had given no indication that she identified as a girl, or so I thought. Hindsight is a wonderful thing; the signs were there. I had missed them."
Problem is, she doesn't say what the signs were...

"Pre-pubertal children do not need medical intervention, but they do need their identities, and their chosen names and pronouns, to be respected, and to be allowed to dress according to their gender identity, rather than their assigned sex. "
Again, using gender and sex synonymously...

I really need to stop reading this shite!

This is a pretty good analysis of the "50% of trans teens will attempt suicide based on a study of 2000 people" Mermaid claim

And the conclusion of the piece I jsut linked to is really important, and surely activists like Paris Lees should heed its advice:

"Suicide is contagious. Suicidal ideation is incredibly dangerous, especially for young people. There are guidelines in place for reporting of suicide for a reason and, in the main, the press seem to follow them with one glaring exception – transgender people. Surely transgender people would be better served with a positive movement like It Gets Better rather than seeing their advocates and support organisations constantly telling people that they are a danger to themselves."

jamrock

The question I would be asking of the children in your daughter's class, and the ones you come across at work, is whether they have gender dysphoria. And if so, how it manifests.

It seems to me, that you can separate people out into those who have genuine gender dysphoria and those who feel a little disassociated, or just want to escape their stereotypical role.

None of which should preclude them from wearing what they like. I honestly don't see why it has to be a big deal, though. It's this, I have the brain of one sex in the body of another, nonsense that is making it all so difficult.

And when you start to lie and say it's possible to change sex.

Jamrock, your DS has obviously inherited your courage and determination to speak the truth. I'm sure you are very proud of him

So girls who like outdoor sports probably have male brains (yes coz that's a thing ) and are probably boys?! What the actual jeff is wrong with people who take this kind of stuff seriously?

And I'm not making light of self harm or suicide or the misery of being a teenager for a second, but isn't dissatisfaction with who you are and what your body looks like just part and parcel of the growing up process? It certainly was for me, and I often remember feeling like I wasnt a 'good' enough' girl because I had short hair and long limbs and wasn't sweet and adorable. Thank fuck there was no trans propaganda at the time

jamrock

That sounds absolutely horrific. Seriously, what is wrong with these people?!

Transwomen of colour who are prostitutes are at the highest risk of being harmed. I'll see if I can dig out the statistics, but being a white trans-person, in America, at least, actually is a more low risk than any other group.

That sounds like they used the CPS schools pack.

jamrock

Here is an analysis of the murders of trans-people, using FBI stats.

medium.com/athena-talks/trans-murder-rates-the-data-120b60b19cb4

This (rate) is lower than both the murder rates of men (6.6) or women (1.8). So the data says that trans people are murdered at a lower rate than the general population. Being trans in 2015 in the United States actually lowered your chances of getting murdered.

jamerock

Was the information used at your child's school the one endorsed by the CPS, as suggested by Venus? Because it is shockingly biased and highly manipulative.

This link rips through it and exposes it for the propaganda it is.

www.transgendertrend.com/cps-schools-project-the-erasure-of-sex-and-the-silencing-of-girls/

It's worth you both reading through the exposé in my link. And then, if you feel comfortable, asking the school about it. It's an utter disgrace.

This might sound controversial, but I wonder if we could get The Daily Mail interested in the content @jamrock is referring to? They are the only major U.K. Publication which challenges this issue, so may be willing to show the absurdity of the situation?

What do others think?

I've thought this too. I'm not a fan of the paper, but it does tackle these issues in its own inimitable way where others don't.

jamrock

Can you point out the manipulation that that link shows to the school?

The scenarios that show young girls being responsible for protecting men and boys. The fact that the word 'lesbian' is defined as one woman being attracted to another woman. Instead of same-sex attraction. Thereby letting a self identified woman (ie a man) be considered as a partner for a lesbian, etc.

I was outraged when I first read that document. But another poster said it was only in the planning stage and hadn't been disseminated throughout schools. It seems that things have moved on.

Why aren't there any gender critical feminists on that panel? Or anyone not in a position to make money out of (or keep positions based on) an increase in the numbers of trans people?

And do none of those with "gender" in their job description (or in their department / institution) ever actually think about gender in any depth at all?

My DS pointed out that in fact transgender hate crime, like all violent crime, is almost always carried out by male perpetrators and asked why the information only showed girls. They had no answer

Yey for jamrock and jamrock junior! Thank god someone still has their marbles. Of course the real answer to your DS' question is that most TRAs are virulently misogynist - but we're not supposed to have noticed that

It really does feel that we're through the looking-glass though. How can people who are presumably liberal/left be totally blind to the sexism?

How do chromosomes not determine genitalia?

Mind you, why do I expect a gender unicorn to make sense at all....?

shiney because liberal / lefties are very fond of self-flagellation, and if they are told that X is a minority that needs their support they instinctively root for X against the oppressor, even if that appears to be to their own detriment

(I can say this, because I am a self-declared liberal lefty)

jamrock

That unicorn is fucking ridiculous.

Your DS sounds amazing.

I would like to ask his teachers what the definition of gender is. The answer will be it's how you feel inside. How you identify. I would like to ask them exactly what it is they are identifying with.

I concur, Datun.

You must be bursting with pride at your DS's ability to cut through the bullshit, jamrock.

Underneath that unicorn it says: "Biological sex is an ambiguous word that has no scale and no meaning besides that it is related to some sex characteristics."

How can anyone actually write that and believe it to be true? It's crackers

It's becoming a regular occurrence to find myself cheering the Mail and seething at the Guardian. Disorienting but there is it is. I think they'd run with it if the pitch was clear enough for them to grasp the point.

Chromosomes do not determine genitalia

Fuck me that's disingenuous... not in 100% of cases, but in 99.97 cases they do.

How many times do we need to pull out the legs argument. The fact that some humans don't have 2 legs doesn't stop humans being defined as a bipedal species. Hell, the fact that the average number of legs a human has is less than 2, still doesn't make humans monopedal, since the vast majority of humans have 2 legs, and those with less (or more) have lost them to (or gained them from) disorder, disease, or mis-adventure.