Terrorism and male pattern violence

[Collidascope]

Why is it that articles and comments on social media abound about our 'Islam Problem' but it's never pointed out that it is Muslim men who do this? That linked to this is the fact that 96% of worldwide homicides are committed by men?
Surely if we're serious about wanting to stop this, looking at how we're socialising little boys needs to be one of the big factors. It just seems to be completely glossed over! Until someone with authority points this out and addresses it, the violence and killing will just go on and on, and it's horrendous to think that the horror that happened on Monday night isn't even large-scale compared to what is going on every day.
Male violence almost seems to be seen as inevitable.

And also interesting that when there's a terrorist attack, people are encouraged to carry on living as they were, to be defiant. No one is expected to curb behaviour (e.g. not go out drinking in a mini skirt anymore) and 'be responsible for not putting themselves in a dangerous situarion', because that would be letting the terrorists (rapists) win.

I'm a little hesitant about posting this as I've seen other things which have gone beyond the 'How awful, poor victims' line shot down as 'too soon' but this just seems like the big elephant in the room to me.

Xenophile

So, can we talk about the psychology of indoctrination now?

Yes please.

I have made no claim that IQ is not affected by socialization. Maybe the differences in distribution are entirely down to the different ways boys and girls are socialized, and there is no 'slippery slope' for eugenics unless you hold IQ is entirely down to genetics. Which to my understanding on current thinking into the topic seems to view genetics as only a component.

Okay fair enough

I'd also like to reinforce the point that crime correlates with low IQ, and high incomes correlate with high IQ. Causation has not been established.

Also if you toss in these two values into a society rates of extremism go down: women being in control of their own reproduction and female literacy and education levels.

On the issue of extremism of any form women's rights appear to be the cure. However I think gendered violence is a seperate issue. Look at Japan, a high IQ society very very low crime rate comparatively speaking, but STILL lots of sexual assault and domestic violence.

On the issue of extremism of any form women's rights appear to be the cure.

Doesn't the extremism that is on the rise in the UK, Sweden, etc, buck that trend?

Additionally women's rights have gone backwards in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, etc. So perhaps the causal relationship is the other way around and an absence of extremism allows women's rights to progress.

pensivepost.com/the-bonobo-hypothesis-the-link-between-sex-and-islamic-terrorism-89ae66724bfa

socialethology.com/why-young-men-become-terrorists-and-join-isis

I found these articles interesting. Both of them make the link between sexual frustration and violence,and the fact that Islam is very restrictive about sex. That and the fact that where countries allow polygamy and babies or foetuses (feoti?) are often killed for being girls, there are fewer women to go round, leading to increased sexual frustration and more violence.

Interesting but the USA is very permissive when it comes to sex, dress etc and there is a major violence problem there too.

the US is far more conservative about sex, dress etc. A group of us had a major battle to get the school dress code not to specifically single out girls for showing their shoulders. A friend of mine has her pre-schooler somewhere that specifies clothing for her daughter, but allows little boys to take off their tops.

Also, the article statest the top nine are all strict Islamic countries - yet focuses only on the sexual restrictions -and seems to be a piece of pro -porn/prostitution propaganda to me - laying all the responsibility of appeasing male violence by women opening their legs or having an underclass of women who open them in prostitution/porn.
There are lots of other facets of islam/sharia that could contribute to violence for example:

1. Capital punishment
2. Macho beliefs about men
3. Judgemental, intolerant views about other people.
4. Obsession with 'sin' and peity I could go on...

Since 1995 and the advent of internet pornography, the amount of rape in the United States fell by 44%

From the bonobo article.

That statistic looks implausible. (And not just because of the odd phrasing)

*There are lots of other facets of islam/sharia that could contribute to violence for example:

1. Capital punishment
2. Macho beliefs about men
3. Judgemental, intolerant views about other people.
4. Obsession with 'sin' and peity I could go on...*

Those seem far more plausible ; particularly number 3

Oh I don't disagree there are other factors. I flinched slightly over porn being the saviour of women, but I still think the shortage of women in these countries -through femicide and through the fact that certain men are 'hoarding' women -is an interesting factor when you look at male entitlement and also the reward for men who blow themselves and others up -72 virgins.

I still think the shortage of women in these countries -through femicide and through the fact that certain men are 'hoarding' women -is an interesting factor

Yes I think the feeling of it being unlikely that a person is ever going to be able to partner up (sex, babies, companionship, etc) could lead to nihilism. I can imagine that a lot of people would think 'Oh what's the point in living?' and get quite suicidal over it. And the sense of injustice of being left out of the opportunity to have a sexual relationship for reasons that are beyond your control (eg- cultural norms like femicide and a shortage of women of appropriate age or polygyny and you being too poor or coming from the 'wrong stock') that takes that choice away. Also I think there would be a lot of self-disgust about bestiality, prostitution and kidnapping boys and making them dress up to pretend to be women and abusing them (all things that go on in these countries). And as you say squid a thwarted sense of entitlement - probably to have a wife/slave doing your bidding and all the domestic drudgery would cause fury too.

I also think there is a limited number of men who actively enjoy treating women like shit. If men who don't enjoy it are brought up in a culture where their mothers, sisters, friends, partners etc are treated like shit and they must go along with it or be ostracised then that must take a huge psychological toll. IMO it leads to a toxic social environment. You can't have a situation where half the population is basically considered subhuman and for it not to have an effect on the emotional health of everybody in that situation.

agreed Sparrowhawk

Procrastinating Squid I've just read the second of your links and it contradicts the conclusions about pornography in the first by quoting Boris Johnson (who I am sure gets good intelligence on the matter) that suicide bombers are obsessed with pornography - ie - pornography only fuels their sexual frustration rather than 'safely' diffusing it, as the first article presumes.

Additionally - to criticise the first article's conclusions further, I would imagine that nations who are more tolerant of pre/extramarital sex, are going to be generally more tolerant nations anyway, therefore, presumably, less violent ones.

I would imagine that nations who are more tolerant of pre/extramarital sex, are going to be generally more tolerant nations anyway, therefore, presumably, less violent ones.

Not America! I was wondering what people on this thread would say about this incident, but nobody has mentioned it yet. It was actually most typical of how fatal violence happens in this world: men killing each other. And as often happens, there were women involved, but it wasn't their fault. As I wondered earlier, we despise villains but we applaud heroes, and sometimes we don't agree which is which. But does a culture which praises a man for violence if it's properly directed, actually encourage violence generally?

www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/05/27/man-fatally-stabs-2-on-portland-ore-train-after-they-interrupted-his-anti-muslim-rants-police-say/?utm_term=.5cf42697394c

TeiTetua
I don't see the USA as a tolerant country. The Bible belt with all that abstinance movement, virginity focus, etc fuels the porn industry with all is sick, misogynist themes. The US has the death penalty with a disproportionate number of POCs and people with learning disabilities on death row. There is huge racial tension with districts divided by ethnicity. The cultural output isn't very nuanced - people are either 'heros' or 'villains' in a simplistic way that makes most American drama intolerable to watch.

If you name sexual frustration as a cause of male violence then in most nations this amounts to blaming women for male violence as a direct consequence of not putting out. Can we just... not? I don't think this is useful to the discussion in any way. It's probably produced by one of those "incel" forum types.

It wouldn't surprise me in any way however if the kinds of men who seriously think that "sexual frustration" is a justification for anything other than some slightly embarrassing form of masturbation are disproportionately likely to be involved in violence whether we are talking terrorism, pub fights or domestic violence, because this type of entitlement that some men believe they have to women's bodies; sexually, for childbearing, for their domestic labour, to generally exist in a subservient form; this leads to the kind of lethal combination of anger and desperation which invokes violence. But it's not lack of sex which is actually the problem, that's just (part of) the justification that they have made up in their heads.

If I walked into a bank tomorrow and demanded a million pounds and became distressed and angry when they didn't give it to me and started assaulting people, I'd be arrested, and it would be ludicrous for someone to write an article saying "Well, if we just had a more open and tolerant approach to money, this never would have happened!"

It's not about sex, it's not even about violence itself, that's just a tool, it's about power and control and gaining it by any means necessary, and boys are raised with this all the time. You see it even in "positive" messages aimed at all ages, even very small children, in sports, in their games, in media. Even when it's about good triumphing over evil, that's literally the point - as long as you keep thinking in terms of "we're the good guys", there's always someone else to be the "bad guys", who we need to defeat. By force. Cunning or resources or training or strength, it all comes down to force.

The more I learn about feminism the more I become convinced that humanity is in an abusive relationship with patriarchy, and like any abuse victim, it's hard to see that from the inside out. But while we keep focusing on small parts, like sexual frustration, or religion, while we keep saying "But he's great 90% of the time, I just wish he wouldn't get like this", we miss the point, entirely.

Teen vogue have published another fantastic article - this time on white male violence in the US and how reluctant politicians are to call it terrorism and look for sources of radicalisation.

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/white-male-terrorists-are-an-issue-we-should-discuss]

I agree totally Bertie. That's why I think the discussions about religion are pointless. Religion is just another excuse.

If you name sexual frustration as a cause of male violence then in most nations this amounts to blaming women for male violence as a direct consequence of not putting out. Can we just... not? I don't think this is useful to the discussion in any way.

But I think it is more that 'just putting out'. The demonisation of women's sexuality and women's bodies is fairly universal, but cranked up several notches in countries/cultures following Abrahamic religions.

I've discussed with men the fact that men project intention into women, when men have sexual urges towards women, even when women are certainly not attracted to that man or are even completely oblivious to that man's existence. There is the idea that women are being actively seductive, just for having female bodies and wanting to go about our business. I've spoken to men and some have said that they have sexual urges towards most of the women they interact with and this feeling of not being in control of their own sexuality annoys them and even makes them feel a bit disgusted with themselves.

The fact that women ultimately get to choose who to have sex with and when (in an ideal rape-free world), and women collectively might simply choose not to have sex with a particular male ever is a terrifying prospect - like falling in to a bottomless pit (according to the men I have spoken to).In other words the fact of women's ultimate right to their own bodily autonomy and control over access to it, and who might make them pregnant, gives many men a feeling of utter powerlessness and dejection.

This is why so many feel it is justified to restrict women's freedom, make women cover up from head to toe, etc - because women being free to go about do what we want and wear what we want and shag or not shag who we want, is a reminder that a man is not in control of his own sexual impulses or when and with whom they will be fulfilled.

So rather than it being 'sexual frustration' that is key, it is more a misogynist fury that men are not in control of their own desires or fulfilment and in judgemental punitive cultures, there is a desire to punish women for this. Hence stoning women to death for being raped or creating a demand for women to violently abused in pornography.

That all makes total sense Guardian and chimes with a lot of what I think/know. But again, socialisation plays a part here. You say men feel disgusted at their feelings. But rather than turning that disgust inwards, as women tend to do, they turn it outwards and try to destroy others. Why is that? Why do women feel shame and men feel rage?

It's worth remembering too that women feel intense attraction to men. But at no point are men ever blamed for tempting women, or made to feel ashamed for being attractive.