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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Am I maybe being over-sensitive?

27 replies

ShieldMaidenMamma · 22/05/2017 07:50

Just saw an advert (aimed at men) which referred to opening the door for a woman as "laying down the ground work". The man of course got to date the woman.

Haven't men been trying to say for years that the door thing is 'just being nice' (bullshit) and that we're overreacting when we say we don't like patronising, presumptive behaviour? (dismissive)

What the what? Anyone else seen this? AM I overreacting?

(Need to get any necessary venting over this done before poor hubby wakes up because he actually is a seriously decent bloke and doesn't need any of the mood I'm in just now lol)

OP posts:
QuentinSummers · 22/05/2017 08:04

Shock haven't seen it! Ridiculous!

isthistoonosy · 22/05/2017 08:09

I've not seen it but if ipe ing the door is being nice, then it makes sense to do it for someone you like, to show them you are nice.
Doesn't it?

I told my OH he doesn't need to do this for me (use to open the car door for me which was a bit weird), but its nice if he sometimes opens a door and stands to the side to let me through. Obv sometimes I do it for him too though.

Original poster
ShieldMaidenMamma · 22/05/2017 08:12

We're not on about husbands with this, it's ALL the strangers who'll open a door for you and then look at you like they've bought something with their grand gesture. I open doors for people who look like they're struggling, and I give a polite nod, not the 'knowing' smile one gets from guys.

OP posts:
BadToTheBone · 22/05/2017 08:21

I've never had a male or female open a door and give me a smug look fgs, it's just common decency. The advertisers are idiots.

BadToTheBone · 22/05/2017 08:21

And yes, you are overreacting bf.

BadToTheBone · 22/05/2017 08:21

No idea where bf came from, lol

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 22/05/2017 08:22

'knowing' look? Seriously Confused

I hold the door open for people, as they do for me - nobody has looked like they have 'bought something'

tigerdriverII · 22/05/2017 08:26

Well, I don't think you're overreacting to that advert.

A local taxi company, I kid you not, has a poster with one of it's minibuses on it saying something like: "pick up 5x more women than a Ferrari"Hmm

Hard to know where to start with that, although a wag has crossed out the "wo" from "women"

Datun · 22/05/2017 08:26

I'm sure that men opening doors for women used to be considered a 'chivalrous' act and was par for the course.

These days, I don't think it's as sex specific as it used to be. I see men frequently holding open doors for other men.

if men think it is something that will endear them to a lot of women, they aren't aware of how a lot of women might view it.

I might wonder about a man who was holding the door open for say one woman, then another woman, then completely ignored that act of politeness for the third person who was a man.

On the other hand, I have been caught up in a situation where I seemed to be leaning back, holding the door open for half a department.

tigerdriverII · 22/05/2017 08:27

Its not it's: blooming ungrammatical autocorrect

MrsJayy · 22/05/2017 08:27

If the man fancied the woman he is hardly going to shut a door in her face is he ? I think you are being a wee bit over sensitive

LoveMyLittleSuperhero · 22/05/2017 08:34

I always think a man is being polite when they open a door for me, if the way they want to show interest is by opening a door then I'm all for it. Manners are far more likely to make me take notice of someone than body spray or any of the other stupid things adverts try to tell men will make women want them.
Also my dad (almost 60) always opens doors for women, not because he thinks of women as the weaker sex or any such rubbish but because my grandad taught him it is the correct and respectful way to behave. My brother (not yet twenty) has picked up this habit, he's gay so certainly not doing it to get into anyone's pants but he has been bought up that it is the correct way to behave so does it.
I get where you are coming from, but I don't agree and I think YABU. If an advert wants to tell men to open doors for women when they like us instead of grabbing us, making rude comments or any other ridiculousness then I'm all for it.

Dozer · 22/05/2017 08:35

Not oversensitive to object to an ad along those lines. Do you have a link to it?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 22/05/2017 08:44

I'm a woman and hold the door open for people - perhaps I should let it shut in people's faces in case they think I'm trying to shag them

MrsJayy · 22/05/2017 09:02

I had a taxi driver open the car door open for me last week it felt odd i dont hink it is because i am a woman though it just felt awkward i have had this driver before and he did it then maybe i should embrace it and pretend he is my chauffeur Grin

Original poster
ShieldMaidenMamma · 22/05/2017 09:08

Not oversensitive to object to an ad along those lines. Do you have a link to it?

Unfortunately no, it was at the start of a youtube video.

And can I say to some of the responses,

The ad was saying it is 'groundwork'. Not just a nice gesture, but transactionary. The ad said that.
So ignore that and have a go at me for mentioning the door thing has this dynamic. Or even, don't.

OP posts:
NoLoveofMine · 22/05/2017 09:26

My parents have always told me I should hold doors for anyone approaching, so I do. I recall once when I was younger I walked through a door without holding it open for my mum and she was unimpressed Shock so since then I've been a serial holder open of doors.

You're not overreacting in my opinion as the clip in question suggested that a man holding the door open for a woman is "laying the groundwork" for a relationship rather than simply good manners. There's nothing wrong with anyone holding doors open for anyone, but to suggest it'd be looking to get something out of it is silly.

If an advert wants to tell men to open doors for women when they like us instead of grabbing us, making rude comments or any other ridiculousness then I'm all for it.

If these were the only options then I would be too but I'd rather men didn't do the latter two things and holding doors open was just good manners, not in the expectation of anything further. Suggesting anything more would or should come of it is fuelling entitlement (that a woman then owes them something due to their gesture).

MrsEmilyPollifax · 22/05/2017 09:37

It pisses me off.

Men opening doors for women isn't chivalrous. It's a hold over from a time when women were possessions of men. Holding open doors for everyone is good manners. Only holding open doors for women is cringey

deydododatdodontdeydo · 22/05/2017 09:39

YANBU to object to the ad, it sounds pretty regressive.

People should hold doors open for each other though, just basic politeness.

DJBaggySmalls · 22/05/2017 09:53

I get what you're saying, the implication is that now she owes you one.
Life is a serious of transactions. The normal routine goes; I give one to you, you get one. You give one to me, I get one, and we feel the balance has been restored.
Once we know that, we realize the conversation has to end at some point. We can be adult about it and let it go if the other person is up a point.

The comment that its groundwork could have been replaced with something about karma, what goes around comes around, or paying it forwards. Just to be better people.

WhereYouLeftIt · 22/05/2017 11:27

I don't think you're oversensitive to this advert. It is essentially telling men that they can - or maybe, should - expect a 'return' on their investment . For some men, this will reinforce attitudes they already hold (but I bought you a drink!). For others who don't, it may plant a seed; because it implies they should hold this attitude.

Actually holding a door open is just good manners. I hold doors open for people, so I don't see it as a gendered activity. This advert, by conflating good manners and 'groundwork', is actually saying that manners are optional, only use them if you're getting something from it. What a horrible worldview Sad.

thatstoast · 22/05/2017 11:32

I will hold doors for people, it is polite. That's not really what this is about.

You don't have to look too much on the internet before you find this attitude in some men, especially young men. The thinking is that women are willing to have sex with them as long as they can tap in the right combination of cheat codes - opening doors, listening to her, pretending to be a feminist and then... achievement unlocked: Pussy.

And they get angry when women act like autonomous individuals and don't play by the rules.

Datun · 22/05/2017 11:57

It ties into compliments, and how they are viewed by men as transactional.

The link below is very interesting. Women tracked how their answers to compliments were received by men.

So if a man said to a woman you have beautiful hair and she agreed, he got annoyed.

It's very interesting. I see it as a question of his motivation. He compliments because he wants her to choose him. Engage with him. It's about getting her to treat him favourably. Nothing about her hair really.

And if she agrees her hair is nice, not only has she shown that she isn't treating him more favourably than anyone else, he has also just given her a boost for her to bestow her attention on someone she does approve of. He just created a loose/lose situation for himself. So he gets nasty.

It's male entitlement. And only in that particular dynamic.

For instance if I complimented a girlfriend on her skin and she said something like oh yes I bought a new foundation and it makes my skin look so much clearer, there is no way I wouldn't just be pleased. I wouldn't construe her answer is negative towards me.

The examples in the link are fascinating. And telling.

www.buzzfeed.com/tanyachen/thanks-i-agree?utm_term=.exLBQpPxX#.lmwZj8JqE

RecherchedeTemps · 22/05/2017 12:35

The way I read that was that "Laying the groundwork" has an inference of fore-foreplay because it's in the context of dating. So I'm getting a flavour of "Open the door, give her flowers, buy her dinner and then you will get in her knickers..."

So whilst opening doors for one another might be regarded as common courtesy, this particular instance has made it into something rather more sleazy.

Original poster
ShieldMaidenMamma · 22/05/2017 12:39

Actually holding a door open is just good manners. I hold doors open for people, so I don't see it as a gendered activity. This advert, by conflating good manners and 'groundwork', is actually saying that manners are optional, only use them if you're getting something from it.

Thank you so much :D perfect summary of my problem with it

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