Learning about transgender issues

[WelshMoth]

...from the point of view of a 15 yr old girl. She asked me whether I knew of any websites or suitable reading materials where she could learn about Transgender issues. I probed a bit, explained that it's a massive issue and said I'd seek advice.

She's 15 and has bisexual feelings. She hasn't told her parents because they say homophobic things and would fall out her. She has been seeing a 17 year old girl and this girl has just admitted to having feelings of confusion and feels she is transgender. The 15 year old wants to learn about this issue so she can support her girlfriend.

I've emailed our school Counselor but I've just learned that she is on secondment. I looked at Stonewalls website and it seemed really heavy for a 15 yr old. Does anyone here know of any material that could be suitable?

To be honest, in this day of internet savvy-ness, I don't know why she hasn't already researched it. It crossed my mind fleetingly that she was trying to get my opinion but I'm staying away from that one. I just want to try and get hold of some simple, non-biased and honest literature to explain to teenagers about this minefield issue.

I think you are wilfully missing the entire point Kat. Are you really a teacher?!

I don't think I am. I think you are too blinkered to accept my point of view.

I always enjoy having my successful career questioned by strangers on the internet.

Just try to see a different point of view. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it is automatically wrong

The overall mood in schools is very much in one direction though, the official line anyway.

It would be hard to find a range of materials without bias. I used to rely on stonewll but wouldn't be too sure now.

Really, if a school is teaching biological reproduction in one room & that you can be whatever sex you want in another, then there is something amiss.

Dont worry, feminists will still be around to scoop up brains when the open mindedness causes them to fall out. That the GIRES & Mermaids stuff has even been allowed through the door is enough for me to question what is going on. The suicide rates being portrayed as fact, along with the rates of violence when it is proven that these are derived from statistics that have no bearing on students within a UK population are not one of a side. They are propaganda and that the teachers of our youth are swallowing them wholesale is a total travesty.

Wake up. You are not being progress. You are being used. And you will be judged for your unthinking acquiescence to a cause that is damaging to women and children.

Honestly, it's like the geography teachers giving lessons on the water cycle in one room & next door some outside group with fancy power points telling the pupils that hamsters in the sky pissing themselves causes rain. But, both sides and all that.

Really, if a school is teaching biological reproduction in one room & that you can be whatever sex you want in another, then there is something amiss.

Of course there is something amiss!

I've 'acquiesced' in the past, inasmuch as I have quietly not volunteered for a project I would have been good at, and which would have been good for my career - not in a teacher role but somewhere there was a gender policy we were obliged to follow. I didn't do it 'unthinkingly' I thought about it a hell of a lot and it still makes me angry now, 3 years later. I 'acquiesced' because I needed the fucking job!

OP could be on extremely thin ice if she goes in with 4th wave now and transgender trend and the school are all gires and mermaids. If she's in a position where she can afford the risk and she wants to take it then fantastic, but she should go in with her eyes open.

It's a steaming pile of shit that stinks to high heaven but it's where we're at.

I know. I do understand. And I was addressing Katnisnevergreen's polyanna pov that seems to take everyone's opinion as valid. Pomo nonsense in the face of science. And it's harming children who are trying to make sense of the world. I know you know that too - I'm not fighting, just frustrated.

At the risk of godwining the thread, though, if those within the system who are at the sharp end don't stand up, then who? To whom are we looking to take the lead? I work in construction so I'm still rolling my eyes at pink hard hats as a means to get women into the industry. I do what I can, but have no meaningful voice beyond my social circle and writing to my mp.

I think I am skating on thin ice with this one. We had a LBGT talk last year for our KS3 pupils which took a wild turn into Transgenderism and more or less ignored the gay and lesbian aspect. Teachers were and one TA even came to collect her pupil daughter when she was alerted.

I'm not sure where we stand on this as a school but I know I'm going to have to address it today.

Welshmoth, who in the school OKs these talks? Does someone get to see it first, or is it a talk that's been given for years and has changed in content recently?

Sorry FirstShinyRobe I misunderstood your post

At the risk of godwining the thread, though, if those within the system who are at the sharp end don't stand up, then who? To whom are we looking to take the lead?

It's a real problem, I agree. I don't think most teachers have much of a voice either though. I think head teachers and school governors are the ones in a position to take the lead - people higher up the food chain. And whoever's job it is to choose teaching resources, although I don't know how much leeway they would have either. Parents have more freedom to object too, although not much power.

Complaining about pink hard hats in construction might annoy some people but it's not the political hot potato that trans issues are, especially in a field like teaching.

Good luck for today, WelshMoth

Welshmoth

I just wanted to address the point where you said she hadn't heard of gender dysphoria. Has she asked her friend?

If her friend doesn't have it, why is she considering transitioning in the first place?

If she is a young lesbian online she will be subjected to intense pressure to consider herself trans. Purely on the basis of not being a heterosexual, feminine woman.

If you don't have gender dysphoria, the only reason to transition is either internalised homophobia, or a lifestyle choice where escaping objectification becomes paramount.

I'm assuming that somewhere like the Tavistock clinic would establish first whether there was any diagnosis of GID. And send anyone away who didn't have it.

That would be my first question. To establish whether the motivation is dysphoria.

NotCarylChurchill

Don't be ridiculous. The very first question anyone would ask someone who is considering transitioning is whether they have gender dysphoria.

It's not a bloody game.

i agree notcaryl. MN, in particular this forum, is very anti trans. I won't say transphobic because they are always careful to not say anything openly offensive, but are clearly pushing their viewpoint.

I object to the sense of smugness and superiority of the posters here, it's as though they feel they are above the rest of the world, therefore their views are better.

OP, I would go elsewhere for advice

I think what you are objecting to Katnisnevergreen is the sense of utter conviction that the women have on here.

What you are having trouble resolving, is that if the people here do not hate trans people, then why do they disagree with the ideology?

What you perceive as smugness is genuine concern, particularly about the exploitation of children and people with fragile mental health.

What you perceive as superiority is a lot of very well informed people.

You might really want to ask yourself why concern, research and a distinct lack of hate is interpreted by you as thinly veiled transphobia.

Your determination to see the worst in people says a lot.

NotCaryl, Katnis, what do you think is the appropriate response to a teenage girl who suddenly says "I'm trans"? Some organisations (Mermaids) push for the idea that the only appropriate response is unquestioning acceptance; people instinctively know their own gender identity and it is not to be questioned. Many parents (especially when the announcement has either come completely out of the blue, or alternatively follows on from a long history of mental health issues or possibly non-neurotypical diagnoses) instinctively want to say "what makes you think that?"

So, what's the appropriate response? "Yes, you're clearly a man, and we support you 100%" or "What makes you think that?"

Please read the pdf I linked to above - it's published by GIRES, so should be "ideologically pure" enough for you. In view of the massively invasive surgery involved, the loss of sexual function, the high risk of serious and lasting side effects, don't you think it would be unethical not to ask "are you sure this is right for you?"

You know what? I give up. It's not that you are better informed it's that you are informed on one side.

You are not determined in your convictions, you are single minded and opinionated.

Duck this, life's too short to continue banging my head against the wall.

Again about trying to make sure they read a balanced range if views. I worry about young gender curious or confused kids being sucked into the crazy side of trans social media.

I know a girl in a similar position. Their friend then to become boyfriend came out as trans. This young girl wanted to support their bf and got sucked in along the way. The bf then wanted an open relationship and said they preferred boys. Out of nowhere with there never being a sign of gender confusion - this teenage girl suddenly announces she's a boy and is transitioning. Totally caught up in the trans community and immersed in trans social media. And she'll probably still lose her boyfriend.

^ all the TRA plants we've had here say this... but they never follow through with it. They keep coming back like that smell in my bathroom cupboard. The other thing is that they very rarely actually respond to points made. The usual routine is

Wah, you are being transphobic.
Here's the TRA position.
Wah you are being transphobic and not listening to me.
Here's the TRA position again.
Wah, I'm leaving.
....
Wah you are being transphobic ... wash, rinse, repeat.

In view of the massively invasive surgery involved, the loss of sexual function, the high risk of serious and lasting side effects, don't you think it would be unethical not to ask "are you sure this is right for you

^ This.

Blimey, Katnis went from trying to sound reasonable and balanced to "your all a bunch of awful humans" more quickly than most.

WIW, I'd go with transgender trend. They do a balanced and fair discussion. I definitely wouldn't go with Mermaids because they can't even get basic stats right, and if they can't do that, then any conclusions they come to are going to be massively skewed and incorrect.

welshmoth

This has just come up on my feed. You might find interesting.

rainbowery.com/teens-are-becoming-transgender-because-its-trendy-expert-says/

YetAnotherSpartacus

I really wish we could have a proper bloody dialogue. Without it ending, or actually starting, with you're hateful because, reasons.

And they all act like they have just given you 25 reasons to refute what you say. When no discussion has taken place.

The only times I have seen trans-allies actually engage and proffer an argument (after it's been deconstructed), it always just comes down to a feeling. An essence. Something they're not quite sure about but it exists.

In fact I'd have more respect if people just started with that. I know you don't understand, no, I can't explain it, it just is.

Is it transphobic to question why my then 11 year old daughter was told, at school, that it perfectly healthy to take puberty blockers, when just a few years before, consultants - experts in their field, were telling me they are only to be used in extreme circumstances, for a short time?

Why is it transphobic to ask questions?

Puberty blockers have REALLY serious side effects, one of which is bone depletion.

Putting children on them for long periods of time is extraordinarily dangerous.