Not sure if I was sexually assaulted?

[Capattack]

Hi everyone, sorry if this isn't the right part of the forum for this (I posted under support but think that might not be correct?). And sorry if I don't express myself right, I'm a little shaken. And please don't read if it will upset you.

I was just reading over some articles about definitions of rape and different situations and I started thinking about a situation that happened about 18 months ago, when I was 20. I was out clubbing with a friend, and she disappeared. I called and called, and she had gone home with a man. I was very very drunk unfortunately and had no way to get home (I did not think of a taxi). Two men came up to me and invited me to stay at their house, saying it was a student house and lots of friends were staying there. I went with them in a taxi. I was given more alcohol and some MDMA and then went to sleep on the sofa. I woke to one of the men trying to take the duvet off me. I pushed him off, but a few minutes later he tried again, scrabbling at my underwear. I pushed him off again, hard enough that he fell into a coffee table at the side.

I began to get worried, as I couldn't really move or think due to the drink and drugs. My legs and arms were numb. In my mind at the time I thought I had to get having sex with him out the way as I had no where else to go and I was so worried that if I kept refusing he would force himself on me, so I let him so he wouldn't force me. If that makes sense. I didn't want to know if he would go that far so I stopped resisting so I didn't have to find out. After that, I went to sleep but then was woken and we went to his house. I had just given in by then so I had sex with him again there. It sounds so stupid but everything was so foggy because of the drugs and I just didn't care anymore. After that I sort of broke through the fog and he drove me home eventually.

I pushed this to the back of my mind as it wasn't a pleasant experience, and I was so very very stupid. Not only was I drunk, I took drugs, I went to a strange house, I didn't leave. I could have told the taxi driver when we went to the house to take me home but I didn't. I knew it was so stupid and I was so embarrassed so I just pretended it never happened. But now I've started thinking about it...I don't want to talk about this to friends or family in real life as I do want to go on pretending it never happened, but I don't know what to do.

To be honest, I really really want to be told that I am being silly and that it was a bad night and I was pressured, but it wasn't assault. I don't want to have been assaulted, I don't know how to deal with that?

The fact that you were not in control, he was, and the fact that you didn't do what you wanted to do, but went along with what he wanted to do, that you were off your face and sleeping when he started tugging at your underwear says yes, you were assaulted.
If it's any comfort to you, there is nothing unusual in what you went through - Everything you said sounded very familiar to me (every element - although your situation was an amalgamation of lots of different experiences of mine) and I'm sure plenty of women here will be able to relate.

I wanted to ask kindly - What difference does it make to you to admit you were assaulted? What do you think you want/have to do? Are you worried you have to take action, or is it more having to shift the way you see yourself and the world?

Yes, sadly, I would say you were raped. He started sexual contact while you were unconscious, so no doubt as to him being a rapist. And you freezing is a normal response - people talk a lot about the fight or flight reflex, but more accurately it should be the fight, flight or freeze reflex. Your mind does an instant risk assessment and goes for the option that means you're least likely to end up dead/physically assaulted, and often the best strategy to achieve that is to freeze.

If you need to talk, the rape crisis line 0808 802 9999 is open till 9.30. This is their website.

Above all, remember this was not your fault. I know women (myself included) who've done similar things - accepted a stranger's sofa when they were stranded - and come out unscathed, because they didn't have the bad luck to meet a rapist. There are times when we all rely on the kindness of strangers, and sadly sometimes it goes wrong. He was a complete and utter cruel, arsewipe of a bastard.

Hope you're okay CapAttack

Bless you capattack I want to give you a big Mummy hug!

Unfortunately there are a great many women who this has happened to. And it's not ok!

You said you don't want to have been assaulted and don't know how to deal with it if that is what happened - but really it's just semantics hey? What happened was not right and you obviously know that as you felt the need to share it here.

I hope you are ok. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone and I hope you take the time you need to move on from this horrible experience.

I also hope very much that you know it was not your fault in any way. This man took advantage of you. Please talk to someone if you think you need to.

Take care of yourself

I'm struggling op. Did he force himself on you? It's not clear in your op. Did you give consent? Again it's not clear in your op. I understand what you thought, whilst drunk and stoned, but I do not know how uou communicated to the man after pushing him. Pushing him is clear, but not after. When you say you had sex with him willingly because you were worried he may force uou, did you articulate that to him? When you went to his house the next day and had sex with him again, did uou give consent?

I'm not sure this is as clear cut as the others intimate as I am a big believer in personal accountability. So what you communicated, not what you were thinking in your head, is important. Based on what you e written I'm really not sure I think a court would find this as rape. You need to give more detail before that judgement can be given.

To be honest, I really really want to be told that I am being silly and that it was a bad night and I was pressured, but it wasn't assault. I don't want to have been assaulted, I don't know how to deal with that?
Have you spoken to Rape Crisis and told them this? they can talk it over with you.
The internet might not be the best place for you to talk about what happened. Its better to talk to someone who has qualifications in counselling, and experience with this kind of life event.

rapecrisis.org.uk/
Freephone 0808 802 9999
12 noon - 2.30pm and 7 - 9.30pm every day of the year

Find your nearest specialist Rape Crisis services using the search facility on this page.
rapecrisis.org.uk/centres.php

Please do speak to Rape Crisis, I totally agree with DJ that someone who is an expert in this area is the best person to talk this over with.

Bluntness - read the OP again. As usual, the key lies in looking at the man's behaviour, not the victim's. He started to remove the duvet while she was asleep, having been pushed off, came back and started scrabbling at her underwear.

Those are the actions of a rapist. It doesn't matter if OP subsequently froze and couldn't say no - he did not have a yes in the first place to do those things.

Thank you everyone for the comments, I suppose if I think that it was just a silly decision I can explain it away and it doesn't seem so bad. The word 'rape' is so strong, and it would change my view of myself I suppose.

Thank you very much Hedgehog for saying you have stayed over in houses and been ok - I was feeling that what happened was inevitable as I went to the house, but you made me see that wasn't the case.

Bluntness, I completely agree. This is why I am having difficulty with it. I told him to get off many times, then shouted it, and then pushed him (I actually broke the glass coffee table as my push was forceful enough to make him lose his balance over me), I wrapped the duvet around me and lay on the edges (like a cocoon, if you see what I mean) to try and stop him getting in, and I kept putting my clothes back on. But due to the drugs and alcohol I really can't say for certain if I actually said I don't consent, or no. I just remember feeling like he couldn't recognise a word I was saying, like he completely ignored me so I thought physical resistance was my only option. Maybe it was a misunderstanding? It wasn't like he did physically force sex violently or directly harm me.

OP, you did more than enough to be clear on your lack of consent. Anyone who wasn't a rapist would have known you didn't consent.

Hugs, Capattack.

Think of it this way - if you saw that scene in a movie, would you think the woman had made it abundantly clear to the man that she didn't want sex? Even if the actress didn't actually utter the word "no"? I'm pretty sure if you were watching a scene like that from outside, happening to someone other than yourself, you'd be in no doubt.

I think we judge ourselves more harshly because however much we try to ignore rape myths, we have internalised them - we blame ourselves for getting into "stupid situations", partly because we've had lifetimes of people saying "don't wear short skirts", "don't walk home after dark by yourself", "don't get drunk", we've had lifetimes of hearing judges and senior police victim blaming, and (because we do this after all horrible things, not just sexual assault) it's a very natural thing to say to ourselves "if only I hadn't done such-and-such", if nothing else because it's a means to reassure ourselves that if there is a next time, there's something we can do to stop it happening the same way again.

You did nothing wrong. There is no way a sane, decent man could have been in any doubt that you didn't want sex.

Let me tell you about a friend of mine. She got totally pissed at my birthday party and friends put her in a taxi home. She was so drunk she gave the taxi driver the address of her hall of residence from the previous year. The young man now occupying that room found himself confronted by a very beautiful blonde Swedish girl, skimpily and sexily dressed for a night out, totally shitfaced and vulnerable. Do you know what he did? Put her to bed in his own bed, slept on the floor, made her a cup of strong coffee the next morning and sent her on her way. Because that's what decent men who aren't rapists do.

You were just bloody unlucky to be targeted (and you were targeted) by a man who was a rapist.

You were just bloody unlucky to be targeted (and you were targeted) by a man who was a rapist.

I completely agree with this and wholeheartedly disagree with Bluntness. You were clear you didn't want it and went into survival mode OP - I think a lot of people who go through this wonder why they didn't behave like a rape victim is supposed to - you know like in the films... But when someone is has total control of a situation we don't like, but feel we must go along with (even if in retrospect we can say "why didn't I do X,Y or Z?"), we do stuff that we can't explain - and the reason always comes back to it that -for that time someone else was in control. You are not accountable for someone else taking control of you when you were vulnerable. Only the one in control is accountable and to blame- the perpetrator.

Hi all,

When threads of this nature are flagged to us, we think it's useful to post a link to our We Believe You campaign. Listed here are some of the rape myths we're challenging.

If you've experienced sexual violence of any kind, you can find out where your nearest Rape Crisis centre is here.

Rape Crisis also run a freephone National Sexual Violence Helpline, on 0808 802 99 99 (open 12pm -2.30pm/7pm-9.30 pm every day). Alternatively, you can access a Sexual Assault Referral Centre – they're open 24/7 and will provide support, advice, and immediate medical help if necessary.

We hope you're okay, Capattack.

Thanks, Dawn.

I guess I also want to say, Cat that however you choose to conceptualise what happened to you (and I can see why you might not want to use the word rape - it's a terrifying word and involves having to process and handle an enormous experience), what happened was not your fault in any way, shape or form, it was the fault of the man who chose to ignore your repeated attempts to get him to stop.

I hope you find some way through this that brings you peace, either through talking to us, or finding help out there in RL.

cap I have nothing really to add except
I've been in situations where I've been at risk by going home with guys I don't know and been fine. I've been in situations I thought would be fine that weren't. You did nothing wrong at all, those men took advantage of the state you were in.
You don't have to do anything about this other than know it wasn't your fault. Even if you don't want to call it rape, that's fine. I hope you are OK

"Capattack"
I am so very sorry this happened to you.
I really think too you should talk to rape crisis. It does not matter if rape is a strong word, you need to talk to someone about what happened.

What you did was respond by by freezing and giving up, and having sex the next time would have resulted from the feeling that you'd given up, were trying to minimize what happened or trying to feel control. It is all complicated so that is why you need to speak to people who really understand.

You did what you needed to do to protect yourself and survive, OP. I'm so sorry you were unfortunate enough to find yourself vulnerable in the presence of a predatory rapist. He selected you among the others at the night club and then made you more vulnerable by taking you away and giving you more drugs and alcohol. You made clear in several ways that you did not want sex. In fact, you could not consent to sex.

I knew a lovely man who understood consent before the rest of the world was talking about it. I had a row with my boyfriend. I went to my friend's room, told him all about it, got drunk while taking other meds that don't mix well. I threw myself at him, told him I really didn't mind and I wouldn't regret it the next day, he wasn't to worry. He put me in his bed then slept in a mates rom next door. He knew I couldn't consent, despite my enthusiasm.

When will the world wake up and understand what consent means? Perhaps we should rename it enthusiastic consent.
What do you have to do before some people get it? Bring in a lawyer to certify that actually, no, you don't want to have sex?

Exactly what Pickleme said.