Rape 'jokes'. Wtf is wrong with some people?

[SailAwayWithMeHoney]

Just that really, why do some men feel it's appropriate or funny to make jokes like that?

I've been on a couple of dates with a guy I've been friends with for the best part of nearly 10years. He knows I have ptsd and we were discussing the effects my medication has on me. When I explained that they pretty much incapacitate me (drowsy, can't walk straight, can't type, forget words etc) he replied with " Sweet ill come around then then...easy target "

I was nice. Told him I don't find that funny to which he responded "it's just a joke poppet". Then I (nicely) asked him to explain why it's meant to be funny. Yeah, he really couldn't and instead got shitty with me, said "I'll leave you too it. Take care".

He's since been blocked. But I'm curious as to why some men do it? Do they genuinely think it's funny, or is it more an expression of what they deem an acceptable way to treat women (ie thinking it's fine to take advantage of incapacitated women).
Do they actually not realise that their "harmless jokes" mock and silence survivors (both male and female) and give perpetrators the impression that rape and sexual abuse is funny and acceptable?

I read an article a while ago about a psychology experiment where a % of men admitted to a range of activities that I would call rape (eg holding women down and coercing them to have sex), but once they word rape was used they denied it. I've just googled trying to find it again and found this:
jezebel.com/1-in-3-college-men-admit-they-would-rape-if-we-dont-ca-1678601600

It seems to be a tiny sample and not replicated anywhere, but it strikes me that these kind of rape jokes fall into that category. Your ex-friend didn't use the word rape, but described a non consensual sexual act, and then was angry when you rightly pointed out that he was joking about rape. It's a fairly scary cognitive dissonance, isn't it?

Actually, it is replicated elsewhere - it's the same methodology as David Lisak uses (though interestingly, his findings are slightly different - describing the actions, e.g. "holding down" without using the word rape elicits a 6% rate of men admitting to committing acts meeting the legal definition of rape, but when he uses the word "rape" the percentage only falls to 5% - i.e. most rapists know exactly what they're doing but don't care - if they don't think they will get caught, they will happily commit rape in the knowledge that it is rape). This is one of Lisak's papers, with a sample size of just over 1800, from which 120 men's self-reported acts met the legal definition of rape. (A much bigger sample size than Edwards et al as reported in the Jezebel article).

Damn, where's the edit function when you need it? Of course Edwards et al are testing something slightly different - how many men would rape if they could be guaranteed to get away with it, rather than how many actually do (in the knowledge that they will, with overwhelming probability, get away with it).

The joke below is from the comments on the Tanya Gold article. I think it might qualify as acceptable.

I despise "comedians" like Carr and Boyle ; particularly Boyle with his ranting, right-on, virtue- signalling, Tory hating nonsense.

Somethings really are not suitable joke material - sexual abuse, cruelty to children or animals. The apologists for this type of "humour" invariably drag The Producers and The Life of Brian in to try to prove no subject should be taboo for humour.

It doesn't work; it simply shows that if you combine a considerable amount of talent with a lack of malice it is in rare circumstances possible to be funny with problematic material.

Bloke fancies himself as a comedian so he secures a gig at the prestigious Edinburgh Festival, gets up on stage and tells a shedload of rape jokes. No-one laughs.
As he doesn’t get paid that night he has to walk home in the dark and on the way he gets ambushed by this group of masked sadists, dragged into the bushes, repeatedly anally penetrated and left there in his own blood and excrement like a discarded pile of junk.
Next thing he knows, it’s daylight and there’s this policeman standing over him. Sobbing with distress he tells the copper that he was brutally raped last night. But the cop sneers with contempt and doesn’t believe him and instead tells him to fxxxing move on or he’ll arrest him for being a drunken vagrant.
As the bloke pulls up his pants and hobbles off in a shivering wretched suicidal state, he says to himself: “Hmmm…no wonder they didn’t find it funny!”

No sure why the rape joke Lass? I think we all agree rape, and rape jokes aren't funny. I haven't seen either of those comedians and certainly shan't in the future if that's their sort of thing.

Boys think rape jokes are hilarious. Being Facebook friends with very well educated boys, I have seen so many rape memes since I was about 14.

My boyfriend goes to a very famous public school. The boys in my year (year 12) have a "list" of girls who go to my school and another girls' school near them. The list is "pass", "maybe" and "would rape". They're the future.

I'm maybe though, so small mercies.

No sure why the rape joke Lass?

If you mean what I quoted it isn't a joke as such. It is an observation on the absurdity of making rape jokes. It wasn't credited in The Guardian article but I think it originated from a female comedian.

The article by Tanya Gold was prompted by a particularly bad year at the Edinburgh Fringe. I remember reading it at the time. Morons like Carr and Boyle validate the thinking of the boys Amy is referring to.

Oh Scoot "those comedians" are big, mainstream names on the comedy circuit. Carr and Boyle sell out large venues.

Jokes about rape are one thing. They may be tasteless, but they are still jokes.

But most "rape jokes" are just men openly saying that they would rape, and women are supposed to laugh nervously because we are not to treat men like rapists, even if they admit they are rapists.

It is safest to assume that a man who says he would rape, would rape, and act accordingly.

I don't even bother calling them out. It is very nice of them to tell me that they're rapists, why would I discourage honesty?

Very much so, Vestal.

I think other men should challenge as they should show how abhorrent they think rape and rape "jokes" are by explaining to other men why they do. I do object in some circumstances but generally now I just "unfriend" the boys who do it online or if at a party just reluctantly walk away.

Yeah - Lasses quoted comment wasn't a joke in any way - no-one reading that would have laughed, male or female. It provoked a grim jaw gritting in me for example. More like a terrible version of an Aesop's fable.

I think rape jokes are just normal for some men and they need it pointed out to them that it's not funny. I just don't laugh and they feel like a dick because I laugh at anything!!

I got a lot of 'just joking', holding me down, telling me it's going to happen type jokes from my dh which are tedious but nothing's ever gone further. I don't know if men actually find it funny or just enjoy showing you their strength and your vunurability without actually being abusive.

The comedians like Boyle normalise it so it can end up that we (the women not finding it funny) are seen as joyless fuckers, unable to appreciate that kind of humour . Fucking 'banter' has a lot to answer for!

Really interesting links posted - thank you.

On the "1 in 3 college men admit they would rape if we don't call it rape" the comments are quite an interesting read aswell.
Unsurprisingly I agree with most of the things you've all written here

Saw this quoted elsewhere, " Young men need to be socialised in such a way that committing rape is as unthinkable as cannibalism ".

It's pretty frustrating really to read that some men and boys (and indeed women) don't class rape as rape unless it's "rape rape" (stranger, dark alley, knife). Ie - it's fine to use force to obtain sex because all women say no at first because women can't appear to be 'easy' or 'sluts'. And that they don't believe it's 'rape rape'.

I've done online support for (predominantly) women who've been raped and alot of those women don't think it's rape because he's their husband / she drank his alchohol / she went home with him / she consented to some acts / she didn't fight him off. The list goes on really

Lass's joke is the equivalent of the Not the Nine O Clock news sketch about the policemen who were discussing the arrest of the black man for 'loitering with intent at a pedestrian crossing.'

My ex told me the Carr the 9 out of 10 rape joke along the lines of I don't like rape jokes but found this one funny. He did indeed coerce me into having sex when I was very vulnerable. But he would adamantly refuse to see himself as a rapist because he loves women and is quite the feminist himself. Talk about male privilege, the 'charming' man has in in bucket loads.

I think young men should see rape jokes as offensive as racist jokes. Neither are funny.

Dodo if you reduce both cases to their most basic meaning one mean "i want to rape(you)" the other means "don't get raped". And that's why they are not "the same".

Men definitely joke to each other in a "i hope you get raped" way too.

The "are rape jokes funny" debate is a hardy perennial appearing in Edinburgh.

Adrienne Truscott made her entire show rape jokes one year. Her starting point is her routine focuses on the act and the aggressor not the victim.

She appears as a character rather than herself in a costume of blonde wig, high heels, denim jacket over a bra and nothing else. I didn't see it so don't know if her show was effective ; which might be a more accurate and acceptable description, than "funny". Placing it in the theatre/ performance art section of the Fringe programme rather than comedy might have been better too.

Adrienne Truscott: Asking for It | Edinburgh Festival
edinburghfestival.list.co.uk/article/63533-adrienne-truscott-asking-for-it/

Men definitely joke to each other in a "i hope you get raped" way too.

Men rape each other, too.

Doesn't mean it is okay that they do it to women. Neither the rapes nor the jokes.

Personally, I have never heard a man joke about planning to rape a man, but have heard men joke about getting women drunk to rape them.

I think the above post about "rape rape" and 1 in 3 college study are spot on. There is definitely a disconnect between what some men think is rape. One way this manifests is that there is still a nudge, nudge, wink, wink attitude coercion or taking advantage of a situation. Even if in humour only. The joke in the OP being a classic example. I will be honest and say that until recently i myself (a man) may have made a similar crass comment as the man in the OP.

Hopefully times are changing and pulling up the man telling the "joke", is exactly the right approach. Although this chap reacted badly, that doesn't mean he didn't go away, think about it and realise he was/is a knob.

It's not even just rape jokes, it's the amount of men who, rather than saying "that girl is hot and i want to have sex with her" say "i would like to rape that girl". I don't care, to me those men are telling me exactly who they are. I am sure there are far more men co-ercing women into sex and conveniently not hearing the word no or seeing the refusal. And the woman also doesn't see it as rape or assault because she knows the man, or he's her boyfriend, or she didn't fight enough. How many women come on here years later saying "this is weird but this happened and I don't feel right about it."

As an aside, a few female comedians have made jokes about the reality of rape and those to me are the only acceptable ones. I'm thinking of Tig Notaro's "no moleste", Wanda Syke's "detachable pussy" etc. There was an article about them a few years back

As an aside, a few female comedians have made jokes about the reality of rape and those to me are the only acceptable ones. I'm thinking of Tig Notaro's "no moleste", Wanda Syke's "detachable pussy" etc. There was an article about them a few years back

There are but the issue I have with them is framing them as jokes in a comedy framework rather than as a performance in theatrical context.

I suppose possibly it might be to get a larger audience but most of them, especially in the context of an arts Festival like Edinburgh, would fit easily in the theatre section and would still attract an audience.

I got a lot of 'just joking', holding me down, telling me it's going to happen type jokes from my dh which are tedious
That sounds scary red, hope you are OK. I would hate it if my DH ever held me down, it's violence imo

"I don't know if men actually find it funny or just enjoy showing you their strength and your vunurability without actually being abusive."
I would say that 'showing you their strength and your vunurability' is a threat - and therefore abusive. As has been pointed out already, rape is about power, not sex.

I'm a very enthusiastic heterosexual when I get the chance and had many lovers in my youth. I wasn't always very picky.

Typically I'd end the evening chatting with some bloke over a drink. Nothing very deep, but lots of laughs. The one thing that would immediately make me back off was sexually aggressive humour. It's a huge red flag: don't be alone with this man.