Wolf whistling, how can it be a compliment?

[Kalizahara]

I was debating this with a friend the other day. She said she likes being beeped or whistled at, it's a compliment.

I really don't understand how any woman can feel flattered by it. Do they not realise that the men doing it don't actually fancy them and do it to anyone with a vagina?

My own experience of catcalling has been horrendous. I've been getting beeped, whistled and hollered at since I was 12-13 years old, I've been honked at with my mother, with my children, had obscenities shouted from van windows. The men doing it often do it from behind and have no way of knowing if they're doing it to a woman or a child. They have no way of knowing if the woman will feel embarrassed or intimidated.

Personally I believe men do it to embarrass and control women, to put them in their place, and often to make fun of them.

I can just about understand a woman not being offended, but how on earth can you be flattered?

What's the mindset there?

I watched a documentary on it recently and a woman walked around London for 4 hours, she endured hundreds of unwanted comments and even a man photographing her bum fgs.

once a van driver beeped and said "I like your hair"

To be fair, I don't have a problem with that. That's a specific compliment about your hair, which is something you have absolute control over (excusing bad hair days etc). It's a far cry from "nice tits love" and I do think there's a massive difference.

I would have a problem with it. I don't want men to make comments at me when I'm trying to go about my day. It may be benign, but it can turn aggressive so quickly - I would rather not be made to feel uncomfortable in the first place.

Simply making a comment such as that is not the same as other street harassment but it still has the potential to cause discomfort. I have control over my hair, I have control over what I wear, doesn't mean if I've done something specific with either I want men to comment on it.

I don't mind in the slightest if men or women comment on what I am wearing (if they are being complimentary obviously). I put a lot of time, effort and money into how I dress.

I also compliment strangers who obviously also put a lot of time and effort , if not necessarily money, into looking not like every body else.

I got a right telling off for that once on here. I was told how dare I assume any one would want to hear that. I think it is fairly safe to assume if someone has gone to the length of say full on 50s vintage clothes, shoes, hair and make up or the man I saw at the ballet recently in a suit made of flower sprigged corduroy they probably do want to be noticed.

No matter what I wear I don't want men commenting me in the street. It can turn from supposed "compliments" to aggression pretty quickly and I don't want to be put in the position of having to worry about it.

As I said , I've never been wolf whistled at (I don't think I've ever heard it in relation to any one else either) nor had sexual comments made.

I think it is quite sad actually that it I should be suspicious of or in trepidation of the man who, whilst we both happened to be at the check in desk of a hotel in London, commented about a particularly fabulous coat I was wearing. He wasn't chatting me up, he didn't pester me or follow me. I just assumed, like me, he appreciated the (somewhat outre) tailoring.

Mr Flowery Suit at the ballet seemed delighted my friend and I said we thought his suit was wonderful.

I think it's all about context.
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Lasswiththedelicateair* people tend to deliberately skirt around this issue to make sexual harassment sound like a genuinely harmless compliment or remark.

If I was in a trendy shoe shop and a male employee said he liked my trainers, I'm not likely to get upset.

If I was at the hairdressers and the male hairdresser said I had a great hair colour. I'd accept the compliment.

If a guy in the nail bar said my nail polish was snazzy. I'd thank him.

These are harmless compliments that could be made by anyone.

Ask yourself, would a woman should comments from a van about your appearance? Not likely.

Would a random woman tell you to "cheer up" and "smile love".

There are reasons that certain types of men shout these things from vans or say things to stranger women at inappropriate times, and it isn't to pay you a compliment or to make you feel good.

Lasswiththedelicate cross posted but you've just done exactly what I said.

You've twisted sexual harrassment and turned it into feminists being suspicious of all men.

The man at the check in desk saying he liked your coat is a world away from a bunch of builders whistling at a lone woman going about her business.

You say you've never been wolf whistled at or sexually harassed.

I have been getting sexually harassed since I was a young teen. Here are a few examples.

I've had my arse grabbed on an escalator.

Been wolf whistled, beep at hundreds of times.

Had " nice tits" and "fat ass" shouted from car windows.

Been called a milf when pushing my baby son in the pram.

Had a man on a bus invite me to a party and when I refused called me a stick up bitch in 98p clothes and then was followed off the bus.

These are only a few examples.

Do you believe me? Do you think perhaps I do something to cause this?

As I said , I've never been wolf whistled at (I don't think I've ever heard it in relation to any one else either) nor had sexual comments made.

I'm glad. Sadly, I and many others have been (and it's not irregular). I find it quite unfortunate that you seem to be completely dismissing what so many women and girls go through (as I've posted before and earlier on this thread, I have since 14, and that's far from the youngest of people I know or people who've posted on this subject on here and elsewhere). Why is a man commenting on your coat more important than women and girls not feeling threatened? I note you haven't engaged with the instances given of sexual harassment. Should I not have been suspicious of the two men who shouted "compliments" at me across the street a few months ago? Oh, but that turned into calling me a "miserable bitch" when I ignored them. I suppose I was being rude and should have smiled and said thanks?

Also your complete lack of understanding about how this kind of thing could be threatening or makes many women and girls feel is more "sad".

Do you believe me? Do you think perhaps I do something to cause this?

I do believe you. That does not alter the fact I have never been wolf whistled at , nor can I recall ever hearing it with reference to any one else. That is not dismissing your experience but it is not my experience.

I've got enormous boobs and used to get near constant comments every time I left the house. It was awful when I was a young teenager (often heckled when in school uniform) just getting used to the fact that my body had gone crazy. Now I'm older it happens less and it's a massive relief.

If I look good and therefore confident, I will never get catcalled. I might on occasion get hit on but this is resolutely not the same thing.
Without fail the only times I get catcalled are when I feel like shit and therefore look vulnerable. Catcallers are targeting weakness, not giving a confidence boost.

Reaching my menopause has made me realise how much easier life must be for men in some respects. This in spades.

I was once wolf whistled at whilst on maternity leave and nine months pregnant. It was from behind and, builders on a house renovation - back in 93 with my first to term pregnancy. I did have a very neat bump. I was shocked. I felt very vulnerable. I turned round with my hand on my bump, glanced to see if someone else was on the street (there wasn't anyone but me) and gave them an angry stare. One of the men apologised!

Once upon a time, back in the stone age, when I was a young feminist who had an unfortunate tendency to be a Cool Girl, I used to try to participate in street harassment by bantering back, and telling myself it was because I was so unutterably hot that men couldn't help themselves.

I was cured of that by someone wanking on my back on the Tube, when I realised that none of it was, in fact, a compliment.

Kudos to all of you who have called it for what it is right from the get-go. I think a lot of women fall for the line that it's a compliment, as I know that I did for quite a long time - wish I could go back in time and give myself a shake!

Lass I think your experience is fairly rare and you are lucky not to have been on the end of street harassment. I have been wolf whistled at and had things shouted at me literally hundreds of times since my teens although at 36 it's becoming a rarity. I've also been groped and grabbed at whilst in pubs and nightclubs many, many times. Of my friends I don't know anyone who hasn't experienced a similar level of harassment.

I was cured of that by someone wanking on my back on the Tube, when I realised that none of it was, in fact, a compliment.

Good grief

I can't actually recall a time where I've been cat called but what I do know is that it's one of the last things I want to happen to me as I'm minding my business walking down the street and yes it would make me feel vulnerable and intimidated. The thought of it makes my blood boil actually.

It should be classed as harassment, if it isn't already.

I agree that most cat calling is an expression of dominance but I'm not convinced that all of it is. Back in the 1980s when I was a student I lived in a short street with a large building site by the bus stop. At least twice and sometimes four times a day I walked past it. After a few weeks, annoyed enough to act, I marched onto the site and demanded to see the boss. When he turned up I told him how stressed and uncomfortable the relentless cat calling was.

He was visibly taken aback. Muttered something about it being meant as a compliment. I calmly stuck to my point and very soon he apologised, said the lads meant no harm and said he'd talk to them about it.

They never did it again, which leads me to think that many men don't realize how much women dislike it. I definitely think there's less wolf whistling now than 40 years ago because men gradually understood women's views.

Like a PP I enjoy having reached the invisible age and no longer having periodic. Restful. Liberating.

Sorry but I have to disagree Prawn. This is something I've discussed a lot with friends, comparing experiences, and from this and my own experiences I think the majority of men (and boys) who do this enjoy the discomfort it causes. Why, after all, is street harassment still so commonplace, and any woman or girl who highlights it told by so many men to "lighten up" or abused (as those who contacted Everyday Sexism used to be and probably still are - I had to stop reading as the responses were too irritating). If it was genuinely a surprise that women and girls tend not to like it (to say the least) and it made so many of us uncomfortable, they'd be shocked and say they'd stop and tell other men the same.

I don't want to have to look forward to an age I'm invisible and no longer get it. It should stop now.

Admittedly I'm talking about street harassment and comments generally rather than just "wolf whistling" there.

I think that's maybe the difference. Wolf whistling isn't so much of a thing now. It is crap, but as street harassment goes I think it tends to be nastier now, as you say, to dominate. It's a bit passé to whistle.

Indeed. I still think wolf whistling isn't generally intended to be complimentary, and those who do it enjoy seeing the target of it feeling shy/embarrassed or uncomfortable, but it's far from the most common form of street harassment. I've only been wolf whistled twice (and once was followed by "she'd get it" said from whistler to companion).

Sorry, Amy, I didn't express myself very well. What I meant to say through my anecdote was that whereas back when I was a student nearly 40 years ago it seemed that many men had no idea their whistles, etc were unwelcome, and stopped when asked to, nowadays most men do know that. Men who harass women in the street now generally do know full well that this is unwelcome. This is why there's a lot less of it, though because the motivation is clearly unfriendly it's more unpleasant, coming as it does from misogyny rather than as in the past sometimes nothing more sinister than an expression of joie de vivre.

Thanks for explaining Prawn. Whilst I obviously don't know what it was like 40 years ago, I'm surprised there's a lot less now - as it doesn't seem that way to me (in that it's regular for most girls and women I know and read of). There was a video released a few months ago where a woman in New York wore a hidden camera whilst someone with a hidden camera walked in front of her and she was harassed/catcalled 108 times in 10 hours.

I completely agree that the motivations are misogyny, power and intimidation now though - those who do it clearly enjoy how uncomfortable and often threatened it makes women and girls feel.

Sorry I meant that the person in front was wearing the hidden camera.